Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Garry Wroe]

And I would not doubt you Garry, but you will understand that this source needs to surface to help substantiate the claim one way or the other.

Agreed, Jon, but you can take it as read that it exists and is sitting in the Colindale archives for anyone who cares to look for it.

[Debra A]

Hi Debra,

Sorry. I obviously missed the post. Didn't mean to steal your thunder.

Regards, Bridewell.

But it's really not about anyone stealing anyone else's thunder, and if that's the way my post came across rather than genuinely wanting you to post anything further that you find seeing as you are obviously interested in the same line of research as me, then either there's a strange new breed of attitude afoot or I really do speak jibberish in my posts.

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Ah, now the light bulb has come on. You mean like the tradition where Smith becomes Smitty?

Makes sense.

Cheers.
LC

Something like that, Lynn, kind of connected to military tradition maybe- Smith becomes Smudge, Clark is Nobby, Stride is Long even?

[Cogidubnus]

Since nobody else has asked....

Hi Debs

I think daylight is gradually dawning...

Now, to get to the crunch, the interesting question (and I just bet you've got an answer already!) how many Johnstons/Johnstones, and how many likely to be, say, London-based?

(I'd guess quite a few as, alas, it's not an uncommon name)

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

military

Hello Debs. Thanks. That is quite plausible. Military lads and lasses are prone to do such.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

I think daylight is gradually dawning...

Now, to get to the crunch, the interesting question (and I just bet you've got an answer already!) how many Johnstons/Johnstones, and how many likely to be, say, London-based?

(I'd guess quite a few as, alas, it's not an uncommon name)

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave, yes it is a very common name and they are all over the place. There are Irish Johns(t)ons living in Wales and working in the iron industry and with daughters named Mary Jane even!
But researching the name Johnston in connection with MJK would be pointless unless perhaps there was a family that obviously fitted all the same criteria as the MJK's Kellys. Other than that, if MJK lied about her name she may have lied about everything, or even just some small part. Either way it becomes impossible to 'weigh up' any Johnston family finds?

My main interest is not in researching Johnstons but that Jonto is linked to that surname as a nickname.
I am leaning towards the opinion offered by others, that Johnto probably was a lover rather than a brother. Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?

[Bridewell]

Gibberish?!

But it's really not about anyone stealing anyone else's thunder, and if that's the way my post came across rather than genuinely wanting you to post anything further that you find seeing as you are obviously interested in the same line of research as me, then either there's a strange new breed of attitude afoot or I really do speak jibberish in my posts.

Debra, you never speak gibberish. I was just a little annoyed at myself for having missed what you'd posted.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Garry Wroe]

My main interest is not in researching Johnstons but that Jonto is linked to that surname as a nickname.

Me too.

I am leaning towards the opinion offered by others, that Johnto probably was a lover rather than a brother. Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?

It would certainly be interesting if someone could identify a Johnston (or some variant thereof) who was serving in the Scots Guards during the relevant timeframe, especially a Johnston who was married at the time and who might therefore have been reluctant to admit to his relationship with Mary Jane.

[lynn cates]

hypothesis

Hello Debs.

"Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?"

Splendid hypothesis. Has a general time frame for that event been established? The wording makes it look fairly close to her TOD.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

It would certainly be interesting if someone could identify a Johnston (or some variant thereof) who was serving in the Scots Guards during the relevant timeframe, especially a Johnston who was married at the time and who might therefore have been reluctant to admit to his relationship with Mary Jane.

Fourteen men with the surname Johnston or variations come up in an initial search of men attested to the Scots Guards (all Battalions) between 1868-1888, including a Henry and a Harry.
I will have to look through the whole file on each of them to be able to narrow down which of them were actually serving in the 2nd Battalion in 1888.

[Debra A]

Hello Debs.

Splendid hypothesis. Has a general time frame for that event been established? The wording makes it look fairly close to her TOD.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,
I'd have to check back as I'm not entirely sure.
If it was close to Mary's time of death then it couldn't be a serving 2nd B Scots Guard as the 2nd Battalion left London for Dublin on the 6th September 1888 to take over from the 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards stationed there.

[Cogidubnus]

I am leaning towards the opinion offered by others, that Johnto probably was a lover rather than a brother. Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?

Hi Debs

Belatedly, yes that was my feeling too, hence my query...in particular the London connection (though he may've just spent some duty time or leave there). It's still all a bit "thin" at this time distance though isn't it? (Of course just about everything is though really!). Must drive you mad sometimes!

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

Carthy sighting

Hello Debs. Thanks. I think that is one of the best MJK's sighting out there. That "gentleman" with her is extremely interesting.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Also, if you look back at my earlier posts you will see I don't go with the 'Ianto' idea either, I also mentioned the pronunciation would be totally different for Abberline to have written it down as Johnto from Barnett's dictation, so I have no idea where you got the idea I was championing the 'Ianto' version over 'John too'.

Yes I now see where you might think that. Its not what I was meaning. In responding to you that "Ianto" is being championed, I was not meaning by you specifically. I could have worded it better.

If it was close to Mary's time of death then it couldn't be a serving 2nd B Scots Guard as the 2nd Battalion left London for Dublin on the 6th September 1888 to take over from the 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards stationed there.

Incidently, I don't see any allusion to a timeline in Barnett's words, and he does tell us himself that the regiment was in Ireland.

Regards, Jon S.

[Cogidubnus]

Incidently, I don't see any allusion to a timeline in Barnett's words, and he does tell us himself that the regiment was in Ireland.

Which in itself is interesting for obvious reasons. ie Unless he's a Scots Guards Enthusiast (extremely dubious!) how does he know...only likely answer...Mary told him, which comes close to proving at least part of his testimony. (I'm sure I heard or read that somewhere before, incidentally, and wouldn't want you to think I'm claiming it's an original thought!)

Dave