The ALLEGED photograph of Mary Jane Kelly

[Rob Clack]

Thanks Rob. I was just wondering about the accent. I'll tell you by email when I can get on it. It's not responding at the moment.

Oky, I'll wait for it x

[Debra A]

Am I the only one who always thought it was pronounced John Toe?

Mike

No, that's exactly what I thought too. That's why I suggested Johnjoe, thinking his name may have been John Joseph. Incidentally, Henry John Joseph Kelly is the supposed name of the Johnto in the family chris is in touch with.

[Debra A]

Thanks Rob. I was just wondering about the accent. I'll tell you by email when I can get on it. It's not responding at the moment.

[Rob Clack]

Rob, can I ask? When you say "John" to; what word would rhyme with the way you pronounce the 'to'?

Two?

Rob@confused.com

[curious4]

names

Still think it was Ianto. They lived in Wales, spoke welsh, why not a welsh name?

C4

[The Good Michael]

Am I the only one who always thought it was pronounced John Toe?

Mike

[Sally]

Speech

If Barnett did have a speech impediment, as has been suggested at times, maybe that might account for other's mishearing what he was saying.

[Debra A]

Couldn't it be that he was known as "John" to.

Rob

Rob, can I ask? When you say "John" to; what word would rhyme with the way you pronounce the 'to'?

[Rob Clack]

Yes, Chris, but that's a different thing to what others have been proposing on other threads about the name 'Johnto' being someone mis-hearing Barnett saying John too, or John two. I presumed Livia was responding on here to that scenario and one where I proposed Johnjoe may have been the misheard nickname, which was used in Ireland as shown by the 1901 and 1911 census.

Couldn't it be that he was known as "John" to.

Rob

[Debra A]

I think your spot on here Debs, photos from this period had a border around them so we are not seeing the full card. The photo would be developed onto paper and then stuck on the photographers card.

Rob

Thanks Rob and Robert. At least we know that's why the corners appear intact then.

[Debra A]

It could have been John Two or Johnny Two but with the passage of time be shortened to sound like "Johnto" which could have been what Barnett heard. Back then, with big families, names repeated and repeated and they had to find a way to distinguish individuals so you knew which person was being referenced. Just some additional thoughts.

Chris

Yes, Chris, but that's a different thing to what others have been proposing on other threads about the name 'Johnto' being someone mis-hearing Barnett saying John too, or John two. I presumed Livia was responding on here to that scenario and one where I proposed Johnjoe may have been the misheard nickname, which was used in Ireland as shown by the 1901 and 1911 census.

Plus,another thing about the johnto nickname is that it was supposedly given by his army buds and not his family, I thought?

[Rob Clack]

Hi Liv,

Chris can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a scan of the photograph and not the original I think? That might account for the corners not being damaged if nothing else, because it isn't a scan of the photograph in its entirety, it's a cropped portion perhaps?

I think your spot on here Debs, photos from this period had a border around them so we are not seeing the full card. The photo would be developed onto paper and then stuck on the photographers card.

Rob

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Liv,

Chris can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a scan of the photograph and not the original I think? That might account for the corners not being damaged if nothing else, because it isn't a scan of the photograph in its entirety, it's a cropped portion perhaps?
It looks like an authentic period picture (whatever period it comes from) so it's in good nick whoever the woman was.

Someone else suggested John two as well, but to me (and maybe it's just me,i don't know) that's the same problem as with John too becoming 'Johnto' whoever was writing it down not only spelled two or too wrong but also made it into one word-a name. A two part mistake, if you see what I mean?

It could have been John Two or Johnny Two but with the passage of time be shortened to sound like "Johnto" which could have been what Barnett heard. Back then, with big families, names repeated and repeated and they had to find a way to distinguish individuals so you knew which person was being referenced. Just some additional thoughts.

Chris

[Robert]

Hi Debs

It looks as though there is part of the hat missing, so the family in sending Chris the scan didn't quite get the whole photo in.

On Googling for cartes de cabinet images, there do seem to be some that look in quite good nick, though I suppose the only way to tell is to hold one under a magnifying glass.

[Rob Clack]

the alleged Kelly family pic is taken in a studio witj a painted backcloth
Hope this helps
Chris

Hi Chris,

No photographers name on the alleged Mary Kelly photo is there?
I'm not one for fashion trends (I thought flares and tank tops were still in fashion) so the only way I could help would be to trace the photographer.

Regards

Rob