Murder!

[Normy]

Hi all
If we accept for a moment that the cry of 'murder' came from Kelly as she was being attacked. Would you think this suggests she didn't know her killer?
I would have thought that if she knew him she would most likely call out his name, as a way of trying to stop him.

Cheers all

[John Casey]

Hi all
If we accept for a moment that the cry of 'murder' came from Kelly as she was being attacked. Would you think this suggests she didn't know her killer?
I would have thought that if she knew him she would most likely call out his name, as a way of trying to stop him.

Cheers all

I suppose it would depend to a degree on whether she let him in or he let himself in. Total flight of fancy here (for which, forgive me) but if she was by herself, in bed, in basically a drunken stupor, and "he" let himself in, and she didn't even realise he was there until the last second, I suppose it's possible she didnt even have time to register who it was.......all of which does not mean that I favour a particular suspect. Any number of people could have seen her performing the door lock trick, and just did it for themselves.

[Normy]

Hi John
That's a good point: if he entered the room.
As witnesses have said it was dark, unless he was watching her he wouldn't have known if anyone was in the room with her or not, so to enter would be taking a bit of a risk.
I'm thinking he went in with her. If she was really drunk or asleep when he attacked she probably wouldn't have had time to get her senses together to shout.
If she was half drunk/asleep and she knew him, I think she would have said his name in disbelief. But I'm presuming and none of it is proven.

Cheers

[Jon Guy]

Hi all
If we accept for a moment that the cry of 'murder' came from Kelly as she was being attacked. Would you think this suggests she didn't know her killer?
I would have thought that if she knew him she would most likely call out his name, as a way of trying to stop him.

Cheers all

Hi Normy

The Doctors who attended Millers Court thought that her bed sheet, the top left corner, had been thrown over her face whilst she was been attacked due to it been shredded and bloodied.So, she may not have seen who atacked her. It also may account for why her cry of "murder" seemed fainter than a cry of "murder" should really be.
Whether her throat was cut and she was already dead by the time the killer threw the sheet over her face and slashed away, I can`t answer.

[Bailey]

It's always struck me as odd that someone would cry "murder" when being murdered. "Help" perhaps, or a generic scream, but I can't imagine someone yelling "murder" in the midst of an attack. Perhaps if you'd found a murder victim you'd cry murder to get others to come to your aid, but I don't recall there being any other murders in the area that night - I'm sure we'd know about that!

B.

[Normy]

Hi Jon, Bailey

I too think it’s an odd thing to cry when being attacked whether you know who’s doing it or not.
Throwing the sheet over her, I didn’t know he did that! Just to hack away like that sounds pretty savage and he wouldn’t be able to see what he was doing which I would image would be part of the thrill for him.
As for the scream, it would seem he hadn’t throttled her fully when he must have known he had more time here than at any other murder.

Cheers

[Jon Guy]

Hello Normy and Bailey

Apparently, "oh murder" was a common Victorian phrase. It may sound odd to us now but it is referenced a few times in the Whitechapel murders.

But what do you shout if you wake up with a sheet over your face and someone slashing with a knife at you ?

[Normy]

Ouch?

The point I was trying to get at was: if she was in bed with someone she knew, I think she would be more likely to shout their name rather than an exclamation of surprise.
True if the sheet was over her face and she was too drunk, didn't have time to think and didn't know him, then it might cause her to shout something based on total fear.
But if she knew him, sheet or no sheet I think calling out the name would be/is a more personal way to get them to stop.
But that is just my opinion.

[Dan Norder]

It may seem odd based upon our modern experiences for someone to cry "murder" when being attacked, but it was common back then. Any attempt to try to give some other meaning to the word that's based upon thinking it doesn't sound realistic is misplaced.

[Jon Guy]

Ouch?

The point I was trying to get at was: if she was in bed with someone she knew, I think she would be more likely to shout their name rather than an exclamation of surprise.
True if the sheet was over her face and she was too drunk, didn't have time to think and didn't know him, then it might cause her to shout something based on total fear.
But if she knew him, sheet or no sheet I think calling out the name would be/is a more personal way to get them to stop.
But that is just my opinion.

Apologies, Normy, if your "ouch" was in reply to my post. I didn`t mean it to carry any "attitude".

[Normy]

Hi Dan
Ok, I guess I'm not getting my head around a lot of things like this ie: Common sayings and also thinking the streets were quiet with nobody around at night/early hours.

Hi Jon
No it was my fault for not explaining myself properly, I meant that I might scream ouch if attacked under a sheet!

Thanks very much indeed for your 'always' informative postings.

Cheers

[Robert]

The Victorians were different from us. When Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had the last words of a dying man as "The Professor - it was she" (instead of "it was her") he obviously didn't expect an incredulous reaction from his readers.

[Cap'n Jack]

Quite right, Robert.
I have found many cases from the period where women have screamed 'murder' just to get the attention of a policeman, as if they had screamed 'help, my drunken husband is about to give me a hiding' the constable would have wandered by with a friendly nod.
The term was often employed by women when simple things went wrong, like when they couldn't get the thread in the needle, or when they couldn't find the milk for the old man's tea.
No great shakes there really.

[Supe]

AP,

Have to sign on for at least a short cruise with the Cap'n here. No question that "murder!" was a slangy expletive at the time, much like "bother," "fudge" or "oh sh*t." Of course, that last raises the interesting possibility that if it was MJK who said it, depending on how great were her seeming francophile afftectations, perhaps it was "merde!" that she yelled. That would seem a more likely prouncement when cofronted by a knife-weilding killer than the rather mild (though literally accurate) expletive attributed to her.

Where are we headed on this voyage Cap'n?

Don.

[Graham]

The Victorians were different from us. When Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had the last words of a dying man as "The Professor - it was she" (instead of "it was her") he obviously didn't expect an incredulous reaction from his readers.

The best 'last words' in Holmes is in Charles Augustus Milverton, who upon being plugged about seventeen times by the lady he so caddishly wronged, groaned, "You've done me!" before he sank to the floor.

Graham