"Murder...!" cry

[Varqm]

To summarize, your suggestion that she brought a client in is without substantiation and contrary to the way she has lived in that room, your suggestion that arterial spray isnt easily located is incorrect, and your suggestion that people wouldnt undress when going to bed in their own private room is ludicrous.

I agree.The last time known of Kelly is she was in her room.Unless otherwise proven she stayed.There was no noise heard or any indication that Kelly went out exists.And I do not believe the lurking man was an innocent bystander.

As far as the dress goes how certain is it what part of Kelly's dress JTR did not mess with ?

Mr. George Bagster Phillips
Monday, November 12, 1888
(The Daily Telegraph, Tuesday, November 13, 1888)

"The large quantity of blood under the bedstead, the saturated condition of the palliasse, pillow,
and sheet at the top corner of the bedstead nearest to the partition leads me to the conclusion
that the severance of the right carotid artery, which was the immediate cause of death, was
inflicted while the deceased was lying at the right side of the bedstead and her head and neck in
the top right-hand corner."

Dr. Bond's Post Mortem

"The neck was cut through the skin & other tissues right down to the vertebrae the 5th & 6th being deeply notched. The skin cuts in the front of the neck showed distinct ecchymosis"

That does not preclude a client or intruder.

[GUT]

That was not a press photographer, this was a private professional there at the request of Dr. Phillips I think.
From what I understand the photo's were the property of the police and not made public.

Yes I know they were police photographers, but may gave made them available to the sketch artists, probably not (given all the complaints about lack of cooperation) but you never know.

[Wickerman]

And then using the photographs themselves at times perhaps.

That was not a press photographer, this was a private professional there at the request of Dr. Phillips I think.
From what I understand the photo's were the property of the police and not made public.

[GUT]

The press did complain they were not allowed in, so everything we see is artistic license c/w what they were told by others who did see inside like Bowyer, McCarthy, possibly Martin - the photographer, etc.

And then using the photographs themselves at times perhaps.

[Wickerman]

So true. I suspect many of the sketch artists never saw the room, just worked off what they were told.

The press did complain they were not allowed in, so everything we see is artistic license c/w what they were told by others who did see inside like Bowyer, McCarthy, possibly Martin - the photographer, etc.

[GUT]

So true. I suspect many of the sketch artists never saw the room, just worked off what they were told.

[Wickerman]

Yes, the sketch makes the room look much bigger than it actually was.

The floorboards run in the opposite direction in this sketch.
Perhaps we should not put much faith in the accuracy of every detail.


Courtesy of Stewart Evans.

[Wickerman]

They're nearer the fire than the bed, Jon.

Yes the clothes aren't too near the fire, but unless there was a fire guard it would seem sensible.

If I were drying my shoes they would be on the hearth.

BTW, re your illustration : I think MJK might have got a tad suspicious when she saw that her client wasn't even going to remove his hat.

I didn't know what hair style to give him...

[Robert]

Yes, the sketch makes the room look much bigger than it actually was.

[Sam Flynn]

They're nearer the fire than the bed, Jon.

Yes the clothes aren't too near the fire, but unless there was a fire guard it would seem sensible.

And, let's face it, it was a very small room.

[Robert]

They're nearer the fire than the bed, Jon.

Yes the clothes aren't too near the fire, but unless there was a fire guard it would seem sensible.

BTW, re your illustration : I think MJK might have got a tad suspicious when she saw that her client wasn't even going to remove his hat.

[Wickerman]

By using her hand in a vain effort to defend herself against a knife?

In contrast, how was he likely to accidentally cut her thumb, given that it was such a small and somewhat inaccessible target?

So if neither scenario explains the cut to her thumb, then there is no argument.

I would expect far more bruising, and or cuts on the palms of her hands if she is defending herself against a knife (which I don't think happened anyway).

All the other victims were subdued before the knife was used, given the bruising around her throat and her clenched fingers, I'd say Kelly was also subdued before the knife was use.
She never saw a knife.

[Wickerman]

Also, if that is a chair behind the table (on the right), and if those are her clothes hanging on the chair, then she doesn't seem to be drying them by a fire.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon

There is a Reynolds sketch which shows Kelly's shoes in front of the fireplace. If the artist had them in their original position (which may be a big if) you wonder why Kelly would place them in such a position that she'd be obliged to pad across a filthy floor in bare feet to reach them. Surely she'd have had them by her bed, ready to slip into - unless the fire was alight and the shoes needed to dry out from rain/puddles.

Again, you say that you think the killer burned Harvey's clothing, but why did he not burn Kelly's too - unless it was damp?

And if Kelly was cold after Mr A left, how would she be any warmer by donning damp clothing?

Robert.
If you enlarge that Reynolds sketch you will see the shoes are in the middle of the floor, some distance from the hearth.

[Sam Flynn]

How could she cut the end of her thumb?

By using her hand in a vain effort to defend herself against a knife?

In contrast, how was he likely to accidentally cut her thumb, given that it was such a small and somewhat inaccessible target?