How Many Victims Were There?

[caz]

My view is that the Whitechapel murders were a combination of nothing more than murder and mutilation, with the exception of Stride. So I would expect to see variations in the method of mutilation which we in fact do see.

I know that there are those who will quote the facts that is is unikely two murders ocurred on the same night Stride/Eddowes as being the work of two different killers. But there is nothing really to suggest that the same killer was responsibe for both of those murders, because they are so different in each killers MO and all the different facts surrounding each of those two murders.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

But Trev, what the killer could not control was a prospective victim's reaction to his presence. These women were not like Sir Cliff's Living Doll: cryin', talkin', sleepin', walkin', livin' dolls, put in place to satisfy the soul of a killer with a roamin' eye, and to be locked up in a trunk so no big hunk could steal them away. [Dodgiest lyrics in poptastic history if you ask me. ]

It would only take a woman who didn't like the cut of his jib, or wasn't in a good place for what he had in mind, and he'd have been reduced to dragging her off bodily, kicking and screaming, if he was to have his wicked way with her undisturbed.

It's bad enough when people like Michael Richards treat the killer as a robot, to fit a pet theory, but worse when the victims are treated like wax figures, with no possible influence over their killer's actions, with their fate entirely in his hands. Given the environment, he had to trust to luck as much as good judgement that any woman he set his sights on would not make a fuss, or put up any resistance to going off with him to her doom.

If Stride was resistant to her killer's attentions, and Dutfield's Yard was her choice of location, not his, would this not provide a perfectly logical explanation for the differences, without needing to drag in another man, kicking and screaming, to accuse of killing her?

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

We don’t know what was in the killers mind at the time of each of the murders? We don’t know if he had a downer on prostitutes specifically or whether he simply found them the easiest target? We don’t know how each victim initially reacted? We don’t know what external forces were at play like doors banging, lights going on, voices heard which might have had an effect on the killers actions? So how can we know what we would expect to have occurred or what we would have expected to see?

Its noticeable that when people try to say ‘this would have happened,’ or ‘we should have seen this or that,’ it’s usually from someone pushing a theory and the assertion that they’re making would be a convenient fit.

[caz]

The fact is Trevor that 3 women had their throats slit that night, but only 1 was mutilated after that. 1 was solved, leaving us with 2 murders which are not alike. I agree with you on Stride...no surprise,...but I see the variations in actions taken and cuts made as indicators of different killers. The Unsolved Files have what, 12-13 murders in them? People assume 5 are by one man, which to me reveals the FACT that more than 1 killer killed during that period in time, and in that area. Its never been unclear that more than one killer committed these, its just a matter of how many under 1 knife.

But that third woman was so obviously unconnected with any of the Whitechapel victims that I fail to see why you routinely have to wheel her in, as if her case is relevant to anything at all.

[Herlock Sholmes]

But that third woman was so obviously unconnected with any of the Whitechapel victims that I fail to see why you routinely have to wheel her in, as if her case is relevant to anything at all.

I have a feeling that you do know Caz.

[Fiver]

But that third woman was so obviously unconnected with any of the Whitechapel victims that I fail to see why you routinely have to wheel her in, as if her case is relevant to anything at all.

Who was this third woman?

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Who was this third woman?

Murder in Westminster

https://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_telegraph/dt881001.html

[Herlock Sholmes]

A domestic decapitation that took place in a house. The woman wasn't a prostitute and couldn't have been mistaken for one. Michael brings it up when someone says "what are the chances of there being 2 throat cutting prostitute murderers in operation on the same night."

[Astatine211]

Around 12, or 23 if Jack was also responsible for the torso killings.

[Fiver]

Murder in Westminster

https://www.casebook.org/press_repor.../dt881001.html

Thanks for sharing. It obviously has nothing to do with the Ripper killings. Wrong kind of target, wrong location, wrong killer, even the wrong timing.

[Fiver]

Around 12, or 23 if Jack was also responsible for the torso killings.

The Ripper Killings and the Torso Killings had completely different MOs.

[Pcdunn]

IMHO, a drunken rage results in three to five blows, with the knife, max. By then Tabram would have been hurt enough to satisfy his rage. 39 blows, is more than rage, it is a mental illness. I have tried to visualize the act, and I can't see him making it through that many blows without having to take several breaths. Even a prize fighter can't throw 40 blows consecutively; he had to have stopped and started again several times; just can't see it as a single act of rage.

I am not saying it wasn't a pissed off punter that night, but whoever he was his act was beyond rage.

I wonder if the sheer number of stab wounds could be why two soldiers were suspected?

Or did the authorities at the time decide it was one killer?

[Pcdunn]

Yes Gareth, the Tottenham Court Road torso. I guess I left out "Road" in one of my posts. I'll blame it on the fact I'm from Vegas. Excuse me, Las Vegas, in case you were confused about which one.

Las Vegas Nevada or New Mexico??

[jerryd]

Las Vegas Nevada or New Mexico??

There's actually two more. One in Honduras and one in Venezuela.

[Abby Normal]

there was also a car in the 70s called the Vega. In Spanish the plural would be Las Vegas. it was a piece of crap though and didnt last long.

[Wickerman]

I wonder if the sheer number of stab wounds could be why two soldiers were suspected?

Or did the authorities at the time decide it was one killer?

No, it was the fact Tabram (plus Pearly Poll) were seen in the company of two soldiers just before midnight. Tabram's time of death was estimated to be just prior to 3:00am, so plenty of time for her to meet up with someone else.
It's by no means certain she is a Ripper victim, some prefer to think so, often for the sake of their theory.