How Many Victims Were There?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks for the opinions guys.

It was interesting for me to see the wide range of views from 18 posters which gives the lie to the suggestion that those interested in the case are just blindly adhering to some orthodoxy. We go from as low as 2 or 3 victims (from 2 posters) right up to 10 (from 2 or possibly 3 posters) 6 posters went for the c5 but others used percentages for all victims. Only 1 poster appeared certain about Tabram but at least 3 had her as possible/probable. 1 for Mackenzie but 3 possibles. 2 posters attribute the Torso’s to JTR.

Certainly a mixed bag.

A question - is there any way of doing a real poll on all of the potential victims where I could list all of the possibles and get posters to tick any that they agreed with. I don’t want to end up with each as a percentage of the whole though (ie that the total votes add up to 100) I want a poll that tells us - what percentage favour Tabram - what percentage favour Nichols etc.

Is there anyway of achieving this without beginning a new thread on each victim?

[Harry D]

A question - is there any way of doing a real poll on all of the potential victims where I could list all of the possibles and get posters to tick any that they agreed with. I don’t want to end up with each as a percentage of the whole though (ie that the total votes add up to 100) I want a poll that tells us - what percentage favour Tabram - what percentage favour Nichols etc.

As you can see, I'm fairly liberal with my estimate but left out Tabram. I've never been convinced. She's the one murder that I can see as an occupational hazard. I don't see the killer going from frenzied stabbing at the upper body to methodical abdominal slicing in a few weeks. Martha probably pissed off the wrong punter.

[Herlock Sholmes]

As you can see, I'm fairly liberal with my estimate but left out Tabram. I've never been convinced. She's the one murder that I can see as an occupational hazard. I don't see the killer going from frenzied stabbing at the upper body to methodical abdominal slicing in a few weeks. Martha probably pissed off the wrong punter.

I tend to agree with that one Harry. I’ve always suspected a drunken rage.

[Abby Normal]

As you can see, I'm fairly liberal with my estimate but left out Tabram. I've never been convinced. She's the one murder that I can see as an occupational hazard. I don't see the killer going from frenzied stabbing at the upper body to methodical abdominal slicing in a few weeks. Martha probably pissed off the wrong punter.

hi harry
perhaps-but I don't think so. the usual pissed off punter would have beaten her up at most maybe cut her once or twice. this is way post mortem overkill.

and we have to remember that martha was stabbed, but Nichols had stab wounds too. I see a natural progression.

millwood-stabbed lower parts
Tabram-stabbed-lower parts neck targeted
Nichols-stabbed lower parts-neck sliced-abdomen gashed

and if you don't see her as a precurser-whats the alternative? That with Nichols the rippers MO springs fully formed? I would posit millwood and tabram was his "learning" phase.

and, as you mentioned on the other thread re McKenzie-Tabram had her skirts raised also like most of the rest, showing the target of the rippers desire-privates/lower abdomen. the skirt raised is actually kind of the clincher for both Tabram and McKenzie for me.

[jerryd]

[DJA]

A question - is there any way of doing a real poll on all of the potential victims where I could list all of the possibles and get posters to tick any that they agreed with. I don’t want to end up with each as a percentage of the whole though (ie that the total votes add up to 100) I want a poll that tells us - what percentage favour Tabram - what percentage favour Nichols etc.

Is there anyway of achieving this without beginning a new thread on each victim?

Just list them in sequence with options of yes,undecided and no.

C5 will stand out,with Stride in the middle.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just list them in sequence with options of yes,undecided and no.

C5 will stand out,with Stride in the middle.

Probably the best, and maybe the only option Dave

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok.

Ill list the potential victims. If posters put yes, no, or maybe next to them we’ll be able to get figures. For convenience I’ll include the torso’s as a series with one vote.

Annie Millwood
Ada Wilson
Emma Smith
Martha Tabram
Mary Nichols
Annie Chapman
Elizabeth Stride
Catherine Eddowes
Mary Kelly
Alice Mackenzie
Frances Coles
Torso’s

[Abby Normal]

hi Jerry!
Very interesting find! Where is this from and is there any corroborating evidence for this apparent murder?

[John G]

Ok.

Ill list the potential victims. If posters put yes, no, or maybe next to them we’ll be able to get figures. For convenience I’ll include the torso’s as a series with one vote.

Annie Millwood: No
Ada Wilson: Maybe but unlikely
Emma Smith: Maybe
Martha Tabram: Maybe
Mary Nichols: Yes
Annie Chapman: Yes
Elizabeth Stride: Maybe
Catherine Eddowes: Yes
Mary Kelly: Yes, but with caveats.
Alice Mackenzie: Maybe
Frances Coles: No
Torso’s: Definitely No!

See my reply above.

[DJA]

I'd split the torsos.

Whitehall is my only maybea.

[jerryd]

hi Jerry!
Very interesting find! Where is this from and is there any corroborating evidence for this apparent murder?

Hi Abby. It was from a US source. At the time I found this, I remember reading another account of a woman leaving a tavern near Mitre Square near the same time frame and was murdered under similar circumstances. For the life of me, I can't find it now.

I posted this clip on JTRforums years ago and some thought it may have been the source for the Fairy Fay story.

[DJA]

See my reply above.

Premature Jack calculation

Try saying that really fast a few times

[jerryd]

I'd split the torsos.

Whitehall is my only maybea.

Hi Dave,

As you know, the doctors indicated four of the torsos seem to have been dissected by the same hand, which included the Whitehall victim. If Whitehall is a maybe for you, wouldn't the other 3 be a maybe as well?

[DJA]

Not really.

Whitehall barely rates a maybe due to locality.

Doctors not reliable.