Victim solitary

[lynn cates]

ready

Hello Red.

"Maybe a big piece of the pie is right around the corner just waiting to be found?"

I completely agree. Let's keep on searching the archives until then.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

And yes I would be interested in a thread about Annie Chapmans time of death. Keep me informed

There have been several, and one could easily be resurrected or a new one started. Don't know that there's much of anything new to add. Most everyone has probably formed an opinion by now.

[Wickerman]

.... Think about this, put yourself in his shoes, you are walking up the stairs into your house when from somewhere you hear someone say "no". Your not really sure where it came from but you look in the direction that you thought you had heard it, and see nothing. You don't just forget about it and walk into your house right?

Have you read Cadoche's own words?

".... I was not very well in the night and I went out into the back yard about 25 minutes past five. It was just getting daylight, and as I passed to the back of the yard I heard a sound as of two people up in the corner of the next yard. On coming back I heard some words which I did not catch, but I heard a woman say "No." Then I heard a kind of scuffle going on, and someone seemed to fall heavily on to the ground against the wooden partition which divided the yard, at the spot where the body was afterwards found. As I though it was some of the people belonging to the house, I passed into my own room, and took no further notice..."
Lloyds Weekly News, 9 Sept.

He said he was ill, what is foremost on your mind when you have the "runs"? You don't really care what's going on around you, and he further explains..

"...They are packing-case makers, and now and then there is a great case goes up against the palings. I was thinking about my work, and not that there was anything the matter, otherwise most likely I would have been curious enough to look over...."
Daily Telegraph, 20 Sept.

Just human nature..

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

Cadosch

Cadosch was running late for work, had already missed work he probably couldn't afford to miss due to an abdominal surgery he had. His illness that morning was related to this. He must have been very uncomfortable and was distracted by the time as he needed to get to work. He was in his 20's. What he heard would not have led a reasonable person to suspect violence or anything out of the ordinary, so I'm not sure that any of us would have acted any differently than he did under those circumstances. What I find important is his distraction over the time - this would allow us to conclude his timings were relatively accurate.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[RedBundy13]

[QUOTE=Wickerman;203064]Have you read Cadoche's own words?

"It was just getting daylight, and as I passed to the back of the yard I heard a sound as of two people up in the corner of the next yard." quote

I guess I must have missed the part where Cadoche mentions 2 people in the corner of the next yard. This is the 1st time I've heard that mentioned or maybe I had read it before and it just never stuck. But I have it now, Thanks.

"He said he was ill, what is foremost on your mind when you have the "runs"? You don't really care what's going on around you, and he further explains.." quote

[Just human nature..

I would have to agree with you on that if he was going out to the bathroom. But the 2 times he heard something were when he was returning to his house after finishing his deeds. And if it was me, I'm still sticking with that I would have at least looked that way to see what if anything was going on. Again just an opinion and I couldn't answer for anyone else only what I would have done I guess

[lynn cates]

awareness

Hello Tom. Just so. I think a working person with a deadline is very aware of time. Else, he would be unemployed.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

People are still finding newer and better pieces of the puzzle all the time. Maybe a big piece of the pie is right around the corner just waiting to be found?

Shame we don't have a better description of this "Morning-coat" man noticed fleeing the scene..

"... at six o'clock that morning a man ........ was hurrying from Hanbury-street, below where the murder took place, into Brick-lane. He was walking, almost running, and had a peculiar gait, his knees not bending when he walked.......He was dressed in a dark stiff hat and cutaway coat, reaching to his knees. His face was clean shaven, and he seemed about 30 years old..."

And the same peculiar gait mentioned by Mrs Kennedy when describing the "Wednesday-Man" of Nov. 7th.

Regards, Jon S.

[DVV]

Hi Tom

What he heard would not have led a reasonable person to suspect violence or anything out of the ordinaryTom Wescott

Tend to agree, and that would mean the murders were very swift and silent, so much that Cadosh didn't hear any horrible sound or cry, although the murderer certainly cut the victim's throat immediately after Cadosh heard 'something falling against the fence'.

[RedBundy13]

Silent

He could have kept himself silent for sure, but how could he of kept his victim so silent is my question?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Red. Through threat of violence is my one possible solution. A simple 'shut up and do as I say or I'll kill you' works just about every time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

If Cadosch could hear a "no", he could also have heard a verbal threat.
But then, a cord pulled tight might suffice, which prompted the "no"..

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Wick,

Cadosch probably did hear the verbal threat. Remember that he heard conversation, but the 'no' was the only word he clearly made out. Also keep in mind that the Ripper would have been more aware of Cadosch's movements than Cadosch would have been aware of him.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Tom, my gut feeling is that a "no" from a victim is more consistent with a physical attack than a verbal threat. I'm not saying he didn't make a threat, perhaps a silent whisper, but the response "no", is not what I would expect to the threat. More to some physical act by the killer.

Regards, Jon S.

[Wickerman]

I would have to agree with you on that if he was going out to the bathroom. But the 2 times he heard something were when he was returning to his house after finishing his deeds.

I'd have to go through each account again but, if I recall correctly Cadoche said there were "several minutes" between the "no" and him hearing the bump against the fence.
This leads me to believe he heard the "no" as he stepped out of the house to go down the yard, and heard the "bump against the fence" as he returned to the house, simply because it cannot take several minutes to cross the yard one way.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

time frame

Hello Jon. I believe the time frame was 3-4 minutes.

Cheers.
LC