Victim solitary

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn.
Yes thankyou but it may have been longer.

I knew I should have re-read Gavin Bromley's Dissertation, apparently Gavin argue's that Cadosch went into the yard twice within a short time.
The first time he heard the "no" as he was returning to the house, the second time is when he heard the "bump" against the fence.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-cadosch.html

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

2 visits

Hello Jon. Yes, that's correct. It was on the return (3-4 minutes later) that he heard the thump on the fence.

The time, 3-4 minutes, is from inquest. Should be just enough time for strangulation to begin and end.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Jon

Tom, my gut feeling is that a "no" from a victim is more consistent with a physical attack than a verbal threat. I'm not saying he didn't make a threat, perhaps a silent whisper, but the response "no", is not what I would expect to the threat. More to some physical act by the killer.

Regards, Jon S.

Agreed, although a frightened "no" could be consistent with a threat.

But an efficient threat (it's all about an efficient killer) requires a killer with his knife in hand, ready to stab, whereas the man certainly needed his two hands to lower Annie to the ground and suffocate/silence her.

[Wickerman]

But an efficient threat (it's all about an efficient killer) requires a killer with his knife in hand, ready to stab, whereas the man certainly needed his two hands to lower Annie to the ground and suffocate/silence her.

Hi Dave.
My gut feeling is that Chapman never saw the knife, I'll bet none of the victims saw a knife. As far as they were concerned they fell victim to a strangler. Kelly might be the exception, if the cut thumb and a "scream" are indications of defensive actions.

I'm suspicious that these women (except Kelly) turned their backs to the killer, perhaps anal sex was the preference? The exclamation "no" might then be due to the sudden feeling of a cord flipped over her head, around her neck & pulled tight with crossed hands. Holding her in such a grip for 3-4 minutes would be sufficient.

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Wick. I think this 'gut feeling' you're often referencing might be constipation. After all, it's been observed more than once that you're full of...

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sdreid]

Don't have my reference material to hand, so I can't check against the relevant map for the first one:
Nichols : only victim killed in Whitechapel?
Chapman: only victim killed at foot of steps.
Stride: only victim killed on private land visible from the street.
Eddowes: only victim known to have used an alias name shortly before dying?
Kelly: only victim to have a version of her name used by another victim.

You've got the right idea - thanks!

[sdreid]

I'll bet none of the victims saw a knife.

That could be true but I would have to think that Kelly may well have seen it.

[sdreid]

That is if there was proper light.

[sdreid]

Was there any other light in Kelly's room? Surely she must have at least had a candle.

[curious]

Hi, Stan,
Quoting from another thread discussing the brightness of the fire, Beowulf posted:

"A fire fierce enough to melt the solder between a kettle and its spout had burnt in the grate, apparently fuelled with clothing. Inspector Abberline thought Kelly's clothes were burnt by the murderer to provide light, as the room was otherwise only dimly lit by a single candle."

I've read it other places, but couldn't come up with it immediately.

[sdreid]

Thanks curious.

[sdreid]

There would also have been very low light, both artificial and natural, that would have come in the window.

[Bridewell]

Nichols: The only victim whose murder did not generate the description of a suspect from any source, also the only victim not allegedly seen either by or with a Jew (or man of Jewish appearance) shortly before a putative time of death?

Eddowes: The only victim whose last confirmed sighting, whilst alive, was by a police officer.

Kelly: The only victim whose life history is not identifiable at any point, in public records, prior to her death.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Tom_Wescott]

Nichols: The only victim whose murder did not generate the description of a suspect from any source, also the only victim not allegedly seen either by or with a Jew (or man of Jewish appearance) shortly before a putative time of death?

Eddowes: The only victim whose last confirmed sighting, whilst alive, was by a police officer.

Kelly: The only victim whose life history is not identifiable at any point, in public records, prior to her death.

Regards, Bridewell.

Regarding Nichols, see Mr. Birch the milkman, and we don't know that Patrick Mulshaw didn't supply the police with a description of his fellow. And Kelly's recent life history is relatively well documented in public records, such as Barnett's inquest testimony.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

...and we don't know that Patrick Mulshaw didn't supply the police with a description of his fellow.

Somebody did, either of the man who spoke to Mulshaw, or of the man who passed the murder scene while doctors & police were too busy to notice.

"Search for an individual answering to the description above detailed, but having a small moustache and wearing a black deerstalker felt hat, instead of a soft one, has been made by the police in Whitechapel ever since Saturday, Sept. 1,"

Thats the second news report which mentions a "suspect description" associated with the Bucks Row murder, but I don't recall ever reading of one. I'll have to give the reports another look.

Regards, Jon S.