Victim Conversation (off-topic moved)

[Ally]

'
But surely, Ally, that was the norm?
Being murdered for it was not.
So are you not judging the usual by the unusual?

No. I am judging them the same as I would judge any woman who did that. It is you all who are attempting to exonerate their actions simply because they were murdered. You are viewing them by the non-norm and excusing them for the responsibility of their actions because of the manner of their death.

And glad to see some new blood. I've gotten tired of arguing with Paul via Jeff.

[Cap'n Jack]

Tom, many words, honour, dignity, respect, courage, bon chance, empathy, sympathy, love and peace in the community... things that that the crass community you have created will never enjoy.
Look to your master.

[Tom_Wescott]

AP,

If you feel your ass getting sore, it's not hemmorhoids, it's Pirate Jack's nose. Simply stand up from your bar stool and brush his face away. It's not a permanent cure, but it should get you through another Fine Spanish Brandy.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jeff Leahy]

'I have not made a single assumption about them as wives or mothers. I have listed facts: that they abandanoned their children, that they had to be paid to take care of their sick children and their marriages broke up because of their alcohol use. That is making statement of historical facts, not assumptions. '

But surely, Ally, that was the norm?
Being murdered for it was not.
So are you not judging the usual by the unusual?
I remember one case I found last year from the LVP where a French maid in a respectable household was impregnated by the wealthy owner, and rather than suffer the shame of childbirth outside of marriage she took that freshly born child and cleaved it neatly in two from head to groin then shoved it in the drain.
So is murder a better option than social stigma?
I get the impression this is what you are trying to say.

As always it takes the Captain to see Ally's non defenseable position.

Ally, you seek to condem these women by your own standards and your own twenty first century view point. They lived in a different world. They all got to that world in different circumstance. Yet you seek to pool them together as one.

These women were tough in the way that the name 'queen of Mean' means nothing. Emma Smith's struggle for life was a physical acomplishment that we can only all imagine. They deserve respect. because you and I can not begin to imagine what the lives of these women was actually like..

I thank you again Captain for your usual common sense and historical perspective on such matters.

Yours Pirate

[John Bennett]

John, what do you mean?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I was merely (but rather forthrightly for me) stating an opinion about the aggro, as many have done over time. However, I would not presume to push myself upon Stephen's long-standing setup.

I guess I just felt that I wished folk would know when to lay off each other. Agree to disagree, etc, but perhaps that's being 'timid' as Ally mentioned earlier.

I'm not good with conflict, so it's surprising I've lasted this long!

JB

[Tom_Wescott]

John, what do you mean?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[John Bennett]

Have you applied to Stephen to be Admin? If this particular issue is that important to you, then perhaps that's what you should do.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom, I wouldn't be so bold.

[Cap'n Jack]

'I have not made a single assumption about them as wives or mothers. I have listed facts: that they abandanoned their children, that they had to be paid to take care of their sick children and their marriages broke up because of their alcohol use. That is making statement of historical facts, not assumptions. '

But surely, Ally, that was the norm?
Being murdered for it was not.
So are you not judging the usual by the unusual?
I remember one case I found last year from the LVP where a French maid in a respectable household was impregnated by the wealthy owner, and rather than suffer the shame of childbirth outside of marriage she took that freshly born child and cleaved it neatly in two from head to groin then shoved it in the drain.
So is murder a better option than social stigma?
I get the impression this is what you are trying to say.

[Tom_Wescott]

It's just turning into mud-slinging. The boards are getting more clogged with never-ending circular arguments and insults.

Have you applied to Stephen to be Admin? If this particular issue is that important to you, then perhaps that's what you should do.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jeff Leahy]

I have not made a single assumption about them as wives or mothers. I have listed facts: that they abandanoned their children, that they had to be paid to take care of their sick children and their marriages broke up because of their alcohol use. That is making statement of historical facts, not assumptions.

Yes this is my whole piont. They abandoned their children? who is they? there marrages broke up because of alcohol abuse?

Who is this they? News flash..they were all different.

And once again you completely misrepresent the argument as being one that is limited to the causation of their death. No one has said that the way they lived their lives meant they deserved to die. WE are not talking about their deaths. WE are talking about their lives. I realize for people like you, who see them as nothing more than victims and only worthy of note because of how they died, this is a hard distinction for you to make, but we are not talking about their manner of death. Once again, for hopefully that last time and with the fervent hope that repetition can penetrate even the thickest and most obtuse skulls: We. Are. NOT. Talking. About. Their. Deaths.

Got it now? Can you try to keep up?

Again Ally you are running your own agenda without listening to what people are saying..you assume that because another poster has said one thing I am saying the same..I am not. I certainly don't only see these women as victims..I seek to view them as they deserve, as individuals. So perhaps you should..."try and keep up"

You are the one who is lumping together in the perpetual victim category. YOu are the one who refuses to see them as individuals. So this is a really feeble argument you are trying to make here, considering it is what you are doing and saying shouldn't be done.

No Ally I see these women as people, warts and all. The difference between you and I is that I seek to view them in their Historical context not because of something that happened in my childhood.

Pirate

[Ally]

Actually it should be continued wherever the participants wish to continue it and if you want to be hall monitor be prepared to get trampled. We are all adults here, of our own volition, choosing to participate and we don't need someone wagging their finger at us and telling us how we ought to be behaving.

If you don't like it, don't post here. But you aren't exactly adding anything constructive or changing the tone by picking another fight.

[John Bennett]

It's just turning into mud-slinging. The boards are getting more clogged with never-ending circular arguments and insults.

[Tom_Wescott]

Well, to anyone thinking like that, I have only one thing to say...

www.zodiackiller.com.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[richardnunweek]

Hi John,
That is a echo of my thoughts, this is not a difference of a opinion thread, it is a free for all, that should be continued in chat.
Regards Richard.

[Ally]

Good, sort the wheat from the chaff. Timid people never make for interesting debate.