For what reason do we include Stride?

[Sam Flynn]

Were not the cachous considered a luxury and normally out of the economic reach of the working class poor; that it would be unlikely for such a valued item to be cast to the ground uneaten? Or is this not true?

I don't imagine that cachous were particularly luxurious or expensive.

[Abby Normal]

Hmmm, thinking about it, "peaked cap" could be used in the UK differently than I'm thinking. If it doesn't count things like the "cheese cutter" (Andy Cap type hats), and just things like the fellows in the top photo in positions 5, 7, and 8 from the left, then that would change the odds quite a bit as there's only about 6 over the two photos (and that's being generous by calling #2 and 3 from the left in the top photo as examples; with 2nd row 2nd from left in the bottom photo the only example there), making 3 unrelated sightings just over 1/2 of 1%, and that becomes far more interesting.

The difference in the estimates from the two photos, though, makes me wonder how representative they are. But there are photos around from the period one could sample from, so some sort of estimate might be possible. Probably a good idea to try and work out the odds, rather than debate based upon our personal guesses of what the proportions would be.

- Jeff.

Add in now the odds that the three unrelated sightings also included being seen with the same ripper victim?

[Joshua Rogan]

I’m just wondering why only the second of those two pictures is visible on my screen? It doesn’t really matter as the second picture illustrates the point perfectly.

Are you (like Samuel Friedman) a cap-blocker?

[Sam Flynn]

I don't know the answer to this but does "peaked cap" describe one very distinctive type of hat or does it simply describe a style of hat that could have variations?

Perhaps we should be wary of generalisations. Schwartz described "a black cap with a peak", Lawende a "grey cloth cap with a peak of the same material".

[Abby Normal]

another for the cashoo crowd,Peaked Cap Deniers and conspiracy club ; ) (sorry just having a little fun with the labels)

but the question is serious-If Schwartz was making the story up ie lying about his involvement-why no putting him forth as the killer of stride? he was apparently a member of the club according to you all, and someone from the club was responsible for the murder, no? why not him? hes the perfect candidate.

according to you:
He puts himself there.
he lied.
it would explain cashoo in her hand (he was using her services in the yard).
he fits the jewish profile theory.
it explains why he tried to make fake bs man suspect a gentile (because he himself Schwartz is a jew).

or then why not Diemshitz as her killer a lot applies to him too?

if its a club conspiracy then which one of the club members did it? and why not Schwartz or diemshitz?

[Abby Normal]

Perhaps we should be wary of generalisations. Schwartz described "a black cap with a peak", Lawende a "grey cloth cap with a peak of the same material".

oh god here we go down the rabbit hole with sams infamous minutia analysis. : )

[APerno]

I don't imagine that cachous were particularly luxurious or expensive.

Ah! I have once again been fooled by Hollywood who like to use the candy or grapes as supposed bait.

[JeffHamm]

Add in now the odds that the three unrelated sightings also included being seen with the same ripper victim?

That's already in there; you take the sightings based upon "watching" the victims, then the odds of the men sighted being 3 different men are worked out. We're not trying to work out the odds of spotting the victim at random.

- Jeff

[Wickerman]

Hello Wick,

Thanks for posting those pictures.

So I guess the question now is what are we to make of the description of someone wearing a peaked hat? It would seem we really have no way of determining exactly what the witness was describing. I guess we could look at random street scenes from 1888 and try to determine how prevalent it was for a man to wear a hat and then try to determine how many of those hats could be described as peaked and if a particular style was most prevalent. Even then we would really just be guessing.

c.d.

I found a few market scenes with lots of men in peaked caps. It's really just too generic to be used to identify anyone.

[c.d.]

I found a few market scenes with lots of men in peaked caps. It's really just too generic to be used to identify anyone.

I'm not surprised. I know that here in the U.S. in the 1930s and 40s no self respecting man would go outside without a hat. The fedora style (think Bogart in Casablanca) was extremely popular. A description saying the suspect was wearing a fedora would probably be of similar value.

Too bad men's hats went out of style. I think they make a man look really sharp when he is dressed up. We have become a nation of slobs and now you see grown men wearing a baseball cap backwards. Jeez.

c.d.

[Joshua Rogan]

Nobody ever wears a fedora backwards

[Wickerman]

Here is Packer, wearing a peaked cap - is Packer the murderer?




Interestingly (to me at least), we also have a contemporary drawing of the man seen by Packer



This is the same type of hat the suspect described by Best & Gardner was wearing only taller, but the same style.
It is also what PC Smith described initially, before he changed it to Deerstalker, though why I'll never know.
All three descriptions are roughly the same; Packer & PC Smith saw the same man with Stride about 12:30.

[Wickerman]

I'm not surprised. I know that here in the U.S. in the 1930s and 40s no self respecting man would go outside without a hat. The fedora style (think Bogart in Casablanca) was extremely popular. A description saying the suspect was wearing a fedora would probably be of similar value.

Too bad men's hats went out of style. I think they make a man look really sharp when he is dressed up. We have become a nation of slobs and now you see grown men wearing a baseball cap backwards. Jeez.

c.d.

Completely agree, I wear an Outback style all year round, but I never was one for following any trends. And there's my wife complaining "no-one wears hats these days".

[Wickerman]

The Peaked Cap man seen with Eddowes?



I'd like to think some of these sketches contained factual information.
None of the witnesses mention a lamp at the Duke Street end of Church Passage, though it was common enough to have a lamp at the entrance to passages. There was a wall lamp at the entrance to Millers court where Astrachan stopped for a moment talking with Kelly.

[Joshua Rogan]

The Peaked Cap man seen with Eddowes?



I'd like to think some of these sketches contained factual information.
None of the witnesses mention a lamp at the Duke Street end of Church Passage, though it was common enough to have a lamp at the entrance to passages. There was a wall lamp at the entrance to Millers court where Astrachan stopped for a moment talking with Kelly.

Here's what Levy said about the lighting, in the MA's inquest coverage;

"The spot is better lighted now than it was prior to the morning of the murder. There is a better light at the club now than there used to be, and with the aid of the lamp a few yards off I could distinguish almost anybody. On the night in question, however, there was not sufficient light to enable me to distinguish the colour of the dress which the woman was wearing."

I'm not sure whether he is saying there were two lamps - one (not very bright one at the time) outside the club, and one a few yards away - or that the one at teh club was a few yards away when the group made their sighting.