A Possible Reason Why Jack Didn't Mutilate Liz

[Septic Blue]

JTR was poor.

Your insight is most impressive !!!

Perhaps you accompanied the School Board Visitor that called on the home of JtR during the period 1886-1890* !!!

*The period, during which data was compiled for the earliest editions ("Labour and Life of the People"; 1889-1891) of Charles Booth's survey "Life and Labour of the People in London"; 1892-1903

Or perhaps you assisted Charles Booth in interpreting the data collected by that 'Visitor' !!!

But I would be willing to bet that you have simply succumbed to the misleading conventional wisdom that "Local" (in this case) = "East Ender" = "Poor" !!!


Colin

[caz]

Hi Colin,

To be fair, the original context suggested that Mitch was simply using faulty logic to assume that if the killer was careful with money to the point of retrieving whatever he had to give each of his victims to make them compliant, then it follows that he must have been poor.

It only follows that he was very careful with money - which could actually indicate someone who was not living from hand to mouth each day, spending money as fast as he was able to earn it, but someone in the habit of watching the pennies.

But I appreciate your post about misleading conventional wisdom. Far too much of it about these days because people seem to have forgotten how to think for themselves.

Love,

Caz
X

[The Good Michael]

Just playing Devils advocate here Michael..

But am I not correct in remembering that there was a door discovered inside Berners yard, locked from the inside...?

Perhaps Jack never went into the Street? He accessed the yard from the rear?

I think in the police report was mention of one of the two privies being locked.

Mike

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

I still think, that if mr. Diemschutz had arrived about fifteen minutes later with his pony, then;

We would be wondering about Liz's injuries being something between CE and MJK!

All the best
Jukka

[The Good Michael]

Jukka,

I don't think we'd be wondering. We would be quite sure.

Mike

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Good Michael!

What I meant, was;

We would be doing the same kind of comparison as with CE and MJK;

"This cut relates to the cut with CE, that cut with the cut on MJK..."

All the best
Jukka

[perrymason]

Hello you all!

I still think, that if mr. Diemschutz had arrived about fifteen minutes later with his pony, then;

We would be wondering about Liz's injuries being something between CE and MJK!

All the best
Jukka

Hi Jukka,

....and if Mary Kelly had been killed outdoors, how badly would she have been mutilated...maybe more like Catherine was? Neither question is really germaine Jukka, all we can say is what happened....we cannot know why specifics were different each case, because we do not know motives. We can see by the condition of Liz Stride when found, that the killer had not started anything that was interrupted, because she appeared to be "gently laid down", and her clothing was not dishevelled...not even the hem of her long skirt was lifted. She is also on her side...facing the wall.

I believe cd that Sams answer on your question is likely the correct one, in that if he had rituals they must have been little more than making the sign of the cross in the air with his hand or something to that effect. None of the first 4 Canon victims had more than 15 minutes alone with their killer I would think,... it seems Kate's had about 8 but maybe as little as 6, and Liz's needed only a second or two. In all these 4 may represent less than 30 minutes, total time.

At least outdoors, it was speedy processing.
Hope the knee is better cd, cheers.

[The Good Michael]

Hello Good Michael!

What I meant, was;

We would be doing the same kind of comparison as with CE and MJK;

"This cut relates to the cut with CE, that cut with the cut on MJK..."

All the best
Jukka

Jukka,

I understood your meaning. I was just suggesting that it would be a more definite connection to the C5 murders, maybe one that wouldn't be questioned so much if he had the time you alluded to.

Cheers,

Mike

[YankeeSergeant]

Why indeed

I'm hazarding a guess here. Jack didn't mutilate her because he was interrupted or thought he was about to be interrupted. HAppy Holidays all,

[Sam Flynn]

I'm hazarding a guess here. Jack didn't mutilate her because he was interrupted or thought he was about to be interrupted.

His twitchiness seems to have deserted him in Mitre Square, YS, where he only had a handful of minutes in which to work, yet still made an absolute mess of his victim. Now, if it had been the other way around (i.e. Eddowes first, Stride later) I might be a little more sympathetic to the mutilatus interruptus argument.

[caz]

Hi Sam,

But one could argue that frustration or adrenaline, due to an earlier encounter with another unfortunate (mutilation-free for any number of possible reasons, only one of which was mutilatus interruptus), might better explain the absolute mess in Mitre Square than Jack sauntering out cold with the whole night still ahead of him, three weeks after Annie (and three days after some joker posted off the letter giving him his official trade name and promising a bit more work).

Are we to imagine that on each and every night that the ripper claimed a victim, she was the first unfortunate he crossed paths with?

Love,

Caz
X

[Sam Flynn]

Are we to imagine that on each and every night that the ripper claimed a victim, she was the first unfortunate he crossed paths with?

Not at all, Caz - in fact I'd be pretty amazed if there weren't plenty of occasions between the "canonical dates" where Jack returned home empty handed, so to speak. If so, I'd be inclined to interpret it as a matter of the opportunity not presenting itself under the right conditions.

Once a victim had been found, however, I find it hard to comprehend the notion of him abandoning ship, when his knife had barely penetrated deeper than the superficial fascia on one side of a victim's neck. That's not even "mutilatus interruptus", come to think of it. It's more like the Ripper being half-way through undoing his flies.

[c.d.]

Hi Sam,

But what if that meant getting caught?

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

But what if that meant getting caught?

We're into dwindling odds territory, CD, if he were interrupted in the split-second it would have taken to allow the knife to dig just a centimetre deeper, and to progress just a few centimetres further around the neck. I see little reason to doubt that whoever left Liz lying there, he left in the full knowledge that it was - from his perspective - "job done".

[c.d.]

I'm going to disagree with you, Sam. Jack had the thrill of the kill. If he was spooked in some way before he could mutilate Liz, why not give it up as bad business and find another victim as quickly as possible? Which is exactly what I believe he did. It was not as though Liz was the last woman on earth.

c.d.