A Possible Reason Why Jack Didn't Mutilate Liz

[Sam Flynn]

Perhaps...and I'm going out on a limb here...the Ripper was human and not a robot who could perform the same task repeatedly with exact precision.

It's not so much precision as natural force, Tom. Assuming the same sort of blade was used, and the same set of muscles had wielded the knife, I'd expect the degree of penetration of tissues to be comparable, at least at some point along the wound.

[Sam Flynn]

But Sam, isn't that assuming that all other factors were exactly the same as before?

It is in a way, CD - although I'm being as fair as I can. Incidentally, why should factors be radically different with the Stride case? We already have concessions that involve Jack being interrupted, Liz falling awkwardly so that her throat wasn't cut as efficiently as the others, Schwartz being wrong (or lying) about the BS Man episode... and so forth.

For how many more wounds must we find sticking-plasters before conceding that, actually, Stride is only part of the "canon" because she was one half of the infamous "Double Event"?

[c.d.]

Hi Sam,

Isn't this sort of a forest for the trees thing? I think the far more important factor is that her throat was cut as opposed to being shot or beaten by a baseball bat.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Sam. Have you taken in consideration that Liz was lying at an awkward angle with her neck over jagged rocks? This might have impeded he killer's reach and dexterity.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

Isn't this sort of a forest for the trees thing?

It might well be, CD - but from my perspective perhaps only from the point of view of the "forest" of the Double Event. For a better exposition of what I mean, please refer to my post about extrasolar planets and the glare of the parent star.

I think the far more important factor is that her throat was cut

... but so were many other people before, during, and after the Whitechapel Murder series. Even within that series, at least four victims had their throats more deeply penetrated than Liz.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam. Have you taken in consideration that Liz was lying at an awkward angle with her neck over jagged rocks? This might have impeded he killer's reach and dexterity.

Indeed, Tom - but that's assuming he cut her throat whilst she was lying in that position. The same could be argued for the other canonical victims, anyway - yet their killer(s) managed to dissever the tissues of their necks much more deeply.

[Tom_Wescott]

For a better exposition of what I mean, please refer to my post about extrasolar planets and the glare of the parent star.

Oh my goodness, I HAVE been gone a while. Have you joined the lunatic fringe?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

Oh my goodness, I HAVE been gone a while. Have you joined the lunatic fringe?

You really should read my post on that subject first, Tom. I made a reasonable point, I think.

[c.d.]

Like I say - the only thing that distinguishes Liz's death in that regard is that she died on the same night as an indisputable Ripper victim. Were it not for this "Double Event", I'm certain that most people wouldn't consider Stride as a "probable" Ripper victim at all

Maybe so, Sam. But if you want to take that position, let's be fair because it works both ways. Had Liz's time of death been determined to be two hours after being seen thrown to the ground by the BS man would people still be saying "it just HAD to be that guy who threw her to the ground two hours earlier." I have a guess but out of politeness I will keep it to myself.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hi Sam,

And as far as concessions, let's look at what your side comes up with:

Motive for the BS man? - Well we don't know but he was probably a pissed off customer.

Why did he kill her after being seen by two witness one of whom ran off possibly to get a policeman? - Well he must have been really pissed and didn't care about being hanged.

Why did Liz only give out three small screams? - Well that's just the way she screamed. It varies by individual.

How did the bag of cachous remain in her hand unbroken? - Well she must have had her fists balled up to protect them.

Sorry Sam but those are hardly H bombs you are lobbing.

c.d.

[Ben]

Hi CD,

If you've got that much of a problem with BS-man being Stride's killer, you're far better off arguing against Schwartz's veracity than going with the "Jack must have arrived minutes afterwards and killed her in the same location" line of implausible thought. It just weakens the case against Stride's inclusion, and that's speaking as someone who's more inclined to rule her in than out.

Ben

[c.d.]

Hi Ben,

Well Jack had to be somewhere on the planet. And most people believe that on that very night he was but a short distance away killing Kate. Implausible would be if he were known to be in Chicago at the time.

c.d.

[Ben]

Granted, CD, but if you believe Stride was a ripper victim and that she was killed shortly before 1.00am as the doctors suggested, you're fortunate enough to have evidence of an attack on the victim being witnessed around that time - evidence that isn't remotely at odds with the premise that Jack killed Stride.

Ben

[Tom_Wescott]

Sam,

You keep talking about all these other throat cut murders that happened around that time. You say Liz is more like them than she is the Ripper murders. But you don't cite sources. Please provide me just ONE non Ripper murder from 1888 where the victim

* Was killed on the street with no witnesses
* Was killed cleanly with one cut to the throat
* Was killed in a dark yard or court
* Was NOT found to be killed by someone she knew

If you can provide me even a couple of murders like this, then you might have firmer ground to stand on. But I've looked and can't find any.
As for your planet post, I'd be happy to read it. Could you please provide a link or directions for me?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

My Two Pennies-no knee trembler required

And as far as concessions, let's look at what your side comes up with:

Motive for the BS man? - He was a clubman roughly moving a prostitute out of his way when entering the yard, probably Morris Eagle.

Why did he kill her after being seen by two witness one of whom ran off possibly to get a policeman? - He didn't.

Why did Liz only give out three small screams? - She didn't feel her life was in danger.

How did the bag of cachous remain in her hand unbroken? - She wasn't holding them at the time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott