Which Schwartz interpretation is acurate ?

[lynn cates]

tempus fugit

Hello Jeff. Quite happy with both Blackwell's time as well as Polly's.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

For a list of things that don't seem to jive with the B.S. man being her killer, please see post no. 415 in this thread.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Jeff,

Blackwell's time of death is simply an estimate not the exact time. There are simply too many questions that have to be answered if we want to conclude that the B.S. man was her killer.

The police at the time considered the possibility of another killer so obviously they didn't consider it improbable.

c.d.

[Jeff Leahy]

I dont like to speak for lynn because he's an awkard old bugger

But arnt we back again to the basic problem that what ever Schwartz said.. It went via an interpreter?

So we are all left with no alternative than to be causious with his precise details

THe only details we can rely on are Blackwells

He puts time of death at 12.50

So what ever else is probable...Schwartz witnessed Stride attack and Murder

Is it possible someone else killed Stride? ..Yes it is

But its simply not probable

Yours Jeff

PS I think Lynn is correct about the Nichols murder

[Jeff Leahy]

I think the general consensus I am garnishing from most on the board is , it doesn't really matter what he said he saw, or how he said it he saw it , or if he even saw it at all , it wasn't the way he said it was !! Am I close

cheers

moonbegger

I dont like to speak for lynn because he's an awkard old bugger

But arnt we back again to the basic problem that what ever Schwartz said.. It went via an interpreter?

So we are all left with no alternative than to be causious with his precise details

THe only details we can rely on are Blackwells

He puts time of death at 12.50

So what ever else is probable...Schwartz witnessed Stride attack and Murder

Is it possible someone else killed Stride? ..Yes it is

But its simply not probable

Yours Jeff

[lynn cates]

version

Hello MB. Thanks.

I can accept Polly dying around 3.30--when the train passed.

Not sure about your take on Schwartz. IF he were truthful, the police version is the better of the two.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Lynn,

Or it could also be interpreted that he wanted her to go with him...

Thats how I interpret the gesture, something like "your coming with me", and as she resisted, he pushed her down or she lost her balance.

[moonbegger]

Hello MB. Not wishing to drift off topic, but weren't those whispers heard around 3.30? If so, perhaps a bit early for Cross and Paul?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn , I think Lilly used the Luggage train as her time reference .. which was later estimated as around 3.30ish . CrossMere estimates his time as around 3.40ish , plus Lilly does not say it all occurred at the same time . She does not offer a time frame , just what she heard .

It was a painful moan - two or three faint gasps - and then it passed away. It was quite dark at the time, but a luggage went by as I heard the sounds. There was, too, a sound as of whispers underneath the window. I distincly heard voices, but cannot say what was said

Its my opinion that the killer used the luggage train to Muffle out any sounds made by polly , then as the killer went to work on her , he hears or see's CrossMere turning the corner into the Row , and takes off . the whole episode " Luggage train & painful moan " up to " whispers beneath her window" could have taken as little as a few minutes .

But anyway I seem to be out on my own with that chestnut , so i'll leave it there ..

So back to my original question and topic of the thread ..

Of the two statements Schwartz made , (1) To the police , with his friend acting as interpreter , and (2) , to the press who also had an Interpreter on hand . Which one comes across as more coherent and plausible ?

I think the general consensus I am garnishing from most on the board is , it doesn't really matter what he said he saw, or how he said it he saw it , or if he even saw it at all , it wasn't the way he said it was !! Am I close

cheers

moonbegger

[lynn cates]

no sense

Hello CD. Thanks.

Indeed. And it makes no sense that he wanted to harm her if he had just met her for the first time.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. IF one accepts Israel's story, it looks initially like he wishes her to move. Which makes little sense--unless he knew her OR was a clubman who wished her not to obstruct the path.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Or it could also be interpreted that he wanted her to go with him. Either way it could imply a motive other than wanting to do her bodily harm.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

early

Hello MB. Not wishing to drift off topic, but weren't those whispers heard around 3.30? If so, perhaps a bit early for Cross and Paul?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

go away

Hello CD. IF one accepts Israel's story, it looks initially like he wishes her to move. Which makes little sense--unless he knew her OR was a clubman who wished her not to obstruct the path.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

neglect

Hello DLDW. And so he just stands there whilst this is occurring?

And BSM leaves right after Schwartz and PM, Liz ignores her "client," retrieves her cachous from a pocket, and THEN he strikes. perhaps he felt neglected?

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff ,
I have often wondered about the stable gates at Browns yard , but I have never been able to find any evidence that they were ever open at night, or even used by prostitutes for that matter . As for the whispering heard by Lilly , I am firmly of the opinion that the voices she heard was that of Paul and CrossMere , who had missed the killer by seconds ( maybe even disturbed him ) but that is another thread altogether ..

If nichols was taking a client to a dark secluded spot, I've always thought that she expected the gate to be open but it was closed. But Like you have nothing to substanciate the idea.

Theres also been some debate about the street lamp opposite, whether it was opposite and how much light was available. But I've always considered this spot Not very dark. Especially when considering more secluded spots the other side of the board school.

Seeing as the Ripper murders gave birth to the phrase "serial Killer" could this quote also imply "Unidentified serial killings in London are rare and the Jack the ripper crimes are not within that catigory"

cheers moonbegger .

I've always interpreted it as Meaning Anderson believed the police new or he believed they knew, the identity of Jack the Ripper

Yours Jeff

[moonbegger]

Hello Jeff ,

I was suggesting that the location used by Stride was more personal to the killer, as its my personal opinion that Jck lived in Dutfeild Yard as a child and was living only yards away around the corner at the time of the murder. But thats just personal opinion.

Thanks for the clarification Jeff .. But why this site in particular ? could not all of the murder locals be attributed in some way or another to particular memory's contained within the killers past ? I do understand that this was more than likely the killers choice of local , as opposed to being led to it , but all said and done , we really have no idea exactly how much input the killer had , regarding other locations .

In my opinion the only other different attack was Nichols. I beleive she expected the gates at Bucks Row to be open and when they were NOT she was struck suddenly and with violence (Hence the whispering reported by Harriot Lilly)

I have often wondered about the stable gates at Browns yard , but I have never been able to find any evidence that they were ever open at night, or even used by prostitutes for that matter . As for the whispering heard by Lilly , I am firmly of the opinion that the voices she heard was that of Paul and CrossMere , who had missed the killer by seconds ( maybe even disturbed him ) but that is another thread altogether ..

And on one final note ..

"Unidentified murders in London are rare and the Jack the ripper crimes are not within that catigory"

Seeing as the Ripper murders gave birth to the phrase "serial Killer" could this quote also imply "Unidentified serial killings in London are rare and the Jack the ripper crimes are not within that catigory"

cheers

moonbegger .