Throat-slitting and Stride

[Bridewell]

Prostitute or Unfortunate

The statement from the fellow at the lodging house said it best....she was a very clean woman who when faced with a lack of funds would have to resort to whatever means to survive.

Thats an Unfortunate, not a prostitute......a world of difference.

Not really. Very few women who prostitute themselves do so through choice. It's dangerous and not fun. Most do it purely through necessity. If she sold her body, even if only to keep herself alive, she was a prostitute. One deserving of a degree of sympathy in her circumstances, but a prostitute nonetheless. Such evidence as we have suggests that, when the need arose, Stride worked as a prostitute. She may not have done so on the night of her death, but that's a separate issue.

[Bridewell]

At worst and until other things are known, this is a 50/50 or greater proposition.

That's about the size of it.

[c.d.]

[QUOTE=Phil H;273945]If I had to guess, I would expect that the police spoke to her friends and acquaintances as opposed to perfect strangers who didn't know Liz. Since the police report described her as a prostitute (or was it unfortunate), I would expect that that was the description given by those who knew her. I suppose it is possible that the people they spoke to described her as a nun or a shopkeeper and that somehow got changed in the police report to prostitute. Maybe by those pesky extra-terrestrials that seem to inhabit your posts.

But in many cases we know of in that autumn, the friends and associates of the woman concerned, tried hard to put a good gloss on the reputation of the deceased - Chapman and Eddowes are good examples.

So I would expect a positive "spin" from those the police interviewed, and what do we see - many accounts that Stride was a clean woman, who tried to make her way charring etc.

Hello Phil,

I think the police would have pressed those woman and reminded them that this was a murder investigation not a church eulogy. And ultimately, the police report described her as an unfortunate.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Maybe I can't find this information, or I haven't been willing to wade through all the tedious posts regarding this, but what does it matter if Stride was soliciting or not on the night of her murder? Is it the idea that JTR never would have approached her on that particular night? Or is it the belief that the victims actively solicited JTR and that led to their demise? Is it the belief that there was no JTR and this would be another feather in the cap of those few people who follow that path?

Mike

Good Michael,

That is exactly the point that I have been trying to make over and over.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

No doubt her friends would have known EXACTLY what she was doing at all times.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Your friends might not know exactly what you are doing at all times but they would know that you are a professor would they not?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

hidey hole

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"She died inside the gate; the door swung just past her feet. . ."

Correct.

". . .but you mean she solicited outside I presume?"

Quite.

"I don't see why she would have hidden or could have hidden behind the gate and still be visible for solicitation. Is that what you mean?"

No. I was thinking of Professor Fido's notion of a "hidey hole." The idea is that, once she had found a bloke, she would fulfill her bargain by taking him into the yard, pushing the gate back from the wall, going behind it with her client, then coming back out again.

Unfortunately, that scenario CANNOT be reproduced in a manner congruent with her body position.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello again,

I agree with some of the comments on the issue of whether or not Liz was soliciting at the time of her death, its not the defining characteristic one can use to include or dismiss her as a "Ripper" victim. I think the first 2 victims were chosen because they were actively soliciting alone, but the same killer might have just assumed Liz was too....as many here do. It is likely very relevant to the question of WHY she was killed.

What I cannot understand is a belief that a "Ripper" killed her. Using only the physical evidence and setting aside the circumstantial, there is nothing on which to base that assumption. No evidence of Ripping...or attempts to do anything other than kill.

This murder makes Canonical believers argue that there was an interruption despite the lack of evidence for that conclusion or that a Ripper, who cuts throats in a specific manner and then mutilates his victims, might just choose not to. Without a catalyst for that decision, such as an interruption..which again, isn't present in the evidence, there seems to be little basis for that to be considered the most probable case.

Cheers

Hello Michael,

If the interruption occurred before Jack started to mutilate her, I don't think that he was going to write a note to that effect before he left the scene. An interruption could occur with absolutely no evidence such as a door slamming or a rise in the volume of singing or just plain paranoia. Does that mean that it happened? No, but it is a reasonable explanation for why no mutilation occurred.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

2

Hello Colin. Thanks.

"We don't have to make such an assumption but the alternative is that he got away on every occasion through blind luck."

Of course, in my view, "every occasion" would sum to two.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

spinning

Hello CD.

"But in many cases we know of in that autumn, the friends and associates of the woman concerned, tried hard to put a good gloss on the reputation of the deceased - Chapman and Eddowes are good examples.

So I would expect a positive "spin" from those the police interviewed, and what do we see - many accounts that Stride was a clean woman, who tried to make her way charring etc."

Surprise! I agree with you here.

But if this is so, as you and I believe, surely we cannot contend that Swanson, et al, garnered their information from those friends who were "spinning"?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD.

"But in many cases we know of in that autumn, the friends and associates of the woman concerned, tried hard to put a good gloss on the reputation of the deceased - Chapman and Eddowes are good examples.

So I would expect a positive "spin" from those the police interviewed, and what do we see - many accounts that Stride was a clean woman, who tried to make her way charring etc."

Surprise! I agree with you here.

But if this is so, as you and I believe, surely we cannot contend that Swanson, et al, garnered their information from those friends who were "spinning"?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Either I screwed up that quote or you somehow misread it but that is what Phil wrote not me. My portion starts with Hello Phil.

c.d

[lynn cates]

natural assumption

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"Your friends might not know exactly what you are doing at all times but they would know that you are a professor would they not?"

Excellent question.

Well, unless they saw me lecture, they might:

1. Take my word for it.

2. Look in the college catalogue for my name.

But, in case #1, I might be lying. And in case #2, there might be another bloke by the same name. Indeed, I may have assumed her identity.

is it possible that the police made a natural assumption to arrive at their view?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

before

Hello (yet again) CD.

"An interruption could occur with absolutely no evidence such as a door slamming or a rise in the volume of singing or just plain paranoia."

Quite. But the cut to the throat was not so deep as with Polly and Annie. Surely the cut came BEFORE the interruption?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Either I screwed up that quote or you somehow misread it but that is what Phil wrote not me. My portion starts with Hello Phil."

I apologise. I thought the bold was the quote.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

You and I both agree that Kidney would have been suspect number one. You would therefore expect that their focus in these interviews would be to determine if Liz was interacting with any other men, i.e., romantically or business wise. Even if those interviewed tried to put a positive spin on it I think the police would know when they were being BS'd (no pun intended). The police called her an unfortunate. I don't think that they just made that up. We don't know how they arrived at that conclusion but unless it can be shown that they were incorrect, it would seem more probable than not that Liz was a prostitute even if only on occasion.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

unfolding sequences

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"You and I both agree that Kidney would have been suspect number one."

Absolutely. In police work, a mere truism.

"You would therefore expect that their focus in these interviews would be to determine if Liz was interacting with any other men, i.e., romantically or business wise."

Indeed. They said as much.

"Even if those interviewed tried to put a positive spin on it I think the police would know when they were being BS'd (no pun intended)."

True. But my point is that one cannot claim that their knowledge came from her friends--given that they were spinning.

"The police called her an unfortunate. I don't think that they just made that up. We don't know how they arrived at that conclusion. . ."

Well, I found a news report where they implicated her get up.

". . . but unless it can be shown that they were incorrect, it would seem more probable than not that Liz was a prostitute even if only on occasion."

And I am good with this. But my problem is to reconstruct her last night. I'm sure you'll agree that, very different sequences will unfold, depending whether she were soliciting.

Cheers.
LC