Throat-slitting and Stride

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Does this include the three different men she was seen with in the space of 90 minutes?"

That would be number two. Notice I say "men" and "may," for we have no idea whether it was one or many. Indeed, I am not sure it was Liz at all.

But in for a penny, in for a pound.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
Yes, I took your No. 2 to be a vague reference to this, that is why I pushed you to be more specific.

It doesn't appear the police had cause to doubt whether the woman seen with these men was Stride, so seeing as how we do not have the same resources available to the police, why raise the question at all?

[Wickerman]

Are you seriously suggesting that Stride was a prostitute whilst she cohabited with Kidney?

Hi Lynn.
Well, lets suppose she gave it up while with Kidney.
If she was a prostitute before she met him, and now she is back on the streets after, what special pleading should we acknowledge to suggest she was a reformed woman?

If not, were the police that well informed about Liz based on less than a week's movements as supposed by her "friends"?

What limited their inquiries to this particular week?

[lynn cates]

strategy

Hello Colin.

"What was his exit strategy, I wonder?"

Why must we assume he had one?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

nap time

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"It doesn't appear the police had cause to doubt whether the woman seen with these men was Stride, so seeing as how we do not have the same resources available to the police, why raise the question at all?"

Actually, the exact SAME argument could be leveled at our questioning ANYTHING about the WCM. So, by parity of reasoning, we should just accept that this is insoluble and take an extended nap.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

hypothesis

Hello (again) Jon. Thanks.

"If she was a prostitute before she met him, and now she is back on the streets after, what special pleading should we acknowledge to suggest she was a reformed woman?"

Reformed? Her calvinist tendencies mean little to me (heh-heh).

Seriously, the questions are:

1. Other than having a child out of wedlock at 16, was she a prostitute?

2. IF she were, was she soliciting the night she died?

"What limited their inquiries to this particular week?"

Because that was the week she was not with Kidney (recall your hypothesis).

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"It doesn't appear the police had cause to doubt whether the woman seen with these men was Stride, so seeing as how we do not have the same resources available to the police, why raise the question at all?"

Actually, the exact SAME argument could be leveled at our questioning ANYTHING about the WCM. So, by parity of reasoning, we should just accept that this is insoluble and take an extended nap.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

Look at this another way. The evidence we use is mostly derived from an Inquest, not a murder trial. What we have therefore is a limited sample of evidence.
The Police know far more than the Coroner, the Coroner only learns sufficient from the police in order to make his determinations.

The police investigated the 'history' of Stride through friends, associates, etc., then the police know far more about her than what we read through the Inquest.

If the police determined Stride was a prostitute, and was soliciting, based on their information, then what use is it to try raise a few details derived from the Inquest, to suggest she was not?

[Hunter]

The police did not limit their inquiries into Stride's past to the week before she died. They knew about her Thames Magistrate Court appearances. The coroner even brought them up at the inquest. It was the police (Inspector Reid) who settled the issue about Mrs Watts, finding her sister and determining who Stride had been married to and when he died. Thomas Stride was brought to the inquest to verify that after he was shown a photo of Stride taken at the mortuary.

Looks like the police did a pretty thorough job finding out about Elizabeth Stride. If there is a valid reason to question Swanson's assertion that Stride was a a prostitute, I haven't heard it.

[crberger]

Prostitution

If she had to prostitute herself to put food on the table or have doss money does that make her a prostitute or merely surviving as best she can?

If the cost of a "knee trembler" was the same as a bed-which it seems to have been the case, then, has this discussion turned to "condemn the victim" rather than look for the killer?

I believe she had a product to sell and did the best she could to sell that product, yes I also believe the product was herself.

[Hunter]

Its about establishing some facts, or at least reasonable probability.
Good luck finding the killer at this remove.
I know of no one condemning the victim here... certainly not me!

[lynn cates]

get up

Hello Jon. Thanks.

The police, according to the paper, thought she was a prostitute based on her get up. A tad weak, no?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

police favourites

Hello Cris. Thanks.

"The police did not limit their inquiries into Stride's past to the week before she died. They knew about her Thames Magistrate Court appearances. The coroner even brought them up at the inquest."

He did indeed. But can infer prostitution from D & D?

"If there is a valid reason to question Swanson's assertion that Stride was a prostitute, I haven't heard it."

Perhaps. But I have never seen a good reason to accept it.

MacNaughten, Anderson and Littlechild all had reasons (which we know not of) for choosing certain suspects. But surely all three favourites were not guilty?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

There is therefore now no condemnation . . .

Hello CRB.

"has this discussion turned to "condemn the victim" rather than look for the killer?"

I know of no one who does this.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

"The police did not limit their inquiries into Stride's past to the week before she died. They knew about her Thames Magistrate Court appearances. The coroner even brought them up at the inquest."

He did indeed. But can infer prostitution from D & D?

There was a charge of solicitation also.

"If there is a valid reason to question Swanson's assertion that Stride was a prostitute, I haven't heard it."

Perhaps. But I have never seen a good reason to accept it.
MacNaughten, Anderson and Littlechild all had reasons (which we know not of) for choosing certain suspects. But surely all three favourites were not guilty?

But we're not talking about suspects here, or what the various police officials thought about suspects in retrospect. We're talking about the ongoing investigation and the police perspective on the evidence they were gathering at the time.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

The police, according to the paper, thought she was a prostitute based on her get up. A tad weak, no?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

All I can say to that is what I have been saying all along, Scotland Yard did not inform the press on the details of their investigation. Therefore, whatever they report along those lines is guesswork.

[lynn cates]

forensic purposes

Hello Cris. Thanks.

"There was a charge of solicitation also."

You've located it then? I'd be most obliged for details. I've not found that one yet.

"But we're not talking about suspects here, or what the various police officials thought about suspects in retrospect. We're talking about the ongoing investigation and the police perspective on the evidence they were gathering at the time."

Yes, but "suspects" are surely part of their perspective.

I have no doubt they investigated Liz through her friends and acquaintances. And there was the allegation from her youth in Sweden. Whether they were right or wrong, I leave history to judge.

Of course, most important is, Was she soliciting that night? And this is important ONLY for forensic purposes.

Cheers.
LC