Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[Wickerman]

This thread is requested by Investigator.

[lynn cates]

conditional logic

Hello Jon. Ah, another Stride thread.

My take. IF BSM existed, THEN he killed Liz. Else . . .

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

Purely a hunch.

BSM didn't exist. It was the respectably dressed clerk. The parcel he was carrying wasn't a newspaper and he had nothing to do with the club.

[Damaso Marte]

Hello Jon. Ah, another Stride thread.

My take. IF BSM existed, THEN he killed Liz. Else . . .

Cheers.
LC

Agreed. And if BSM existed, Stride is not a Ripper victim.

[harry]

Whether he was broad of shoulder or not,I've no doubt that a male person prededed Schwartz on Berner Street.That an incident between him(nicknameBS) and Stride did occur shortly after 12.45AM at the entrance to Dutfield Yard. What I am not sure of, is whether Stride was stood there for some reason,or w as walking along Berner Street in the direction of Commercial Road,after parting from a male person in Fairclough Street.While it is possible for BS to have killed Stride,the time frame,from experience,leaves not enough time to have he r recover from what has been described as an assault causing her to fall,then to have recovered her composure and trust,and accompanied her assailant into the yard.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo!

Hullo Lynn! Yeah, seems most likely.

Hullo Fleetwood Mac! One attrocious band. If he didn't exist he definitely didn't have anything to do with the club. Despite all the previous, I'm taking your hunch under consideration. Thank you. I'm being serious on the last part.

Hullo Damaso Marte! That is an absolute. Absolutes require some serious backing. I would go so far as to say it might make it less likely.

Hullo harry! Timeframe? What timeframe? Or who's? Move the scenario but five minutes ahead and it becomes quite a bit more viable. I would say 12:45 is probably too early for attack and TOD. Just my opinion. "JTR" or no.

[Phil H]

For argument - BSM man was Michael Kidney. He did kill Stride

The cry was not "Lipski" but "Lizzie!".

Schwartz saw something but misinterpreted and misremembered what he saw.

Phil

[harry]

Well the killing had to be accomplished before one oçlock,give a minute or two,and Stride forgiving enough to enter the yard before Motimer looked out prior to Diemschutz arriving at one.

[Cogidubnus]

For argument - BSM man was Michael Kidney. He did kill Stride

The cry was not "Lipski" but "Lizzie!".

Schwartz saw something but misinterpreted and misremembered what he saw.

I could go for something like that Phil

All the best

Dave

[Phil H]

Stride forgiving enough to enter the yard before Motimer looked out prior to Diemschutz arriving at one.

In some ways the murder and the events are best interpreted as Stride and kidney. Perhaps drunk or drunk with rage, he accosts Liz, she seeks to calm the situation and retreats from the street where, when she refuses to come home, he slits her throat with a quick movement.

Stride's desire to move back into the yard is particularly explicable if her "date" was in the Club and expected to leave imminently; or waiting on the other side of the street (Pipe-Smoking Man?). Lizzie wants Kidney off her back ASAP.

Phil

[Cogidubnus]

OK we're in the wild guesswork area here Phil, but I could buy into a scenario like that one...it's at least sensible

All the best

Dave

[Phil H]

I rule nothing out - Stride might have been a "failed" Ripper attack.

But to me the time, the place (with people around in a comparatively busy street) and the lack of mutilations all argue against a jack murder - and ask for other solutions. I know that many do not accede to my view, but I also believe that there may be significance in the fact that this murder took place SOUTH of Whitechapel High St - I perceive "Jack's" "territory" as north of that road. It was, for him, a boundary.

I find the rough scenario I have outlined at least as good as, if not better than, the "double event" alternative.

When I turn to Eddowes' murder, I also find that that fits better circumstances in which "Jack" is not frantic and rushed, but was already on the northern side of Whitechapel High St, with plenty of time, calm and unhurried. Indeed, I think he might have stalked Eddowes from the moment of her release.

IT is, of course, as you say all speculation. BUT, taken together, I believe the two sets of reasoning provide a powerful argument for at least re-examining the conventional account of the night.

Phil

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
If we take Schwartz at his word then we have this scene.
He crossed the road upon seeing the affray, and he heard the name Lipsky or something similar, and noticed the Pipe-man advance towards the yard, before seeing him appear to run after him.
Taking that as accurate, we should ask the question.''Why did Pipe-man have second thoughts, where did his initially courage go?, was he fearful of a knife being present?
What else would cause him to down a about turn?
There surely is no doubt, that the person who assaulted Stride was the person who cut her throat..was he the Ripper, or was he just a ruffian that is the question? of course he could have been one and the same.
My opinion is Stride was killed because she was close enough to identify him, and if the killer, he was not worried about possible arrest over common assault.
Regards Richard.

[Phil H]

One possibility (it works for me - I don't ask anyone else to accept it) is that Pipe man was Stride's "date" for the night.

When he saw Kidney man-handle her, he initially moved to intervene, then had second thoughts. the implications of being caught up in something might have occured to him.

But so much was going on, I am not sure we should assume Schwatrz saw everything, OR that he got it in the right order. But we must work with what we have.

Phil

[richardnunweek]

Hi Phil,
I can accept that,there is a thin line between bravery, and fear.
Regards Richard.