Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[lynn cates]

else

Hello Damaso. Thanks.

"And if BSM existed, Stride is not a Ripper victim."

Agreed.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

someone else

Hello Harry.

"While it is possible for BS to have killed Stride, the time frame, from experience, leaves not enough time to have her recover from what has been described as an assault causing her to fall, then to have recovered her composure and trust, and accompanied her assailant into the yard."

I agree. But could someone else have done all that?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cachous again

Hello Phil. Was that not AP Wolf's take.

But what of the cachous?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

agony of de feet

Hello Phil.

"he accosts Liz, she seeks to calm the situation and retreats from the street where, when she refuses to come home, he slits her throat with a quick movement."

Usually, when one person accosts another, they are face to face. But obviously, a face to face throat cutting does not work here.

But perhaps Liz turned away? Then her feet should be pointed opposite.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

What of the cachous? Your point is?

Trying to plot how to people stand and then one falls, or is "wrestled" down, is problematic. However it happened she ended up as she was.

Phil

[lynn cates]

identify

Hello Richard.

"My opinion is Stride was killed because she was close enough to identify him, and if the killer, he was not worried about possible arrest over common assault."

But identify him as what?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

separated

Hello Phil.

"One possibility . . . is that Pipe man was Stride's "date" for the night."

Very well. But why had they separated?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

forensics

Hello Phil. Thanks.

My point is that some positions indicate one thing, others, another.

History must work WITH forensics; never against it.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Well you work with forensics then, 125 years on.

"One possibility . . . is that Pipe man was Stride's "date" for the night." Very well. But why had they separated?

I don't know, I wasn't there. It's speculation, but one possibility might be that Stride and her date are together - as they appear to have been all evening.

Kidney turns up - by accident or tipped-off she was there. Lizzie says, "I'll deal with him. Leave it to me."

He stands back and then it all turns nasty as he watches...."

The other possibility that occurs to me is that the date had been in the Club, he comes out and finds Liz with another man - he stands back, having reasons (a wife? a career?) that make it wise not be get involved.

There could be others.

Phil

[Abby Normal]

This thread is requested by Investigator.

Considering that he was see assaulting her minutes befor she was discovered murdered than yes more likely than not he killed her.

[lynn cates]

better

Hello Phil. Thanks.

"The other possibility that occurs to me is that the date had been in the Club, he comes out and finds Liz with another man - he stands back, having reasons (a wife? a career?) that make it wise not be get involved."

Well, this works much better than the other. Pipeman is much farther than he needs to be if Liz is merely asking him to step back.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Jon

Did BSM killed Stride ?

Yes he did.

Now you can close the thread.

Cheers

[Wickerman]

Dave.
I only set the thread up at Investigator's request, I'm still waiting to find out why.

[Sox]

Considering that he was see assaulting her minutes befor she was discovered murdered than yes more likely than not he killed her.

I can't agree with that, murder is a big step up from assault. In fact, all the witness actually see's is Liz Stride being pulled and/or pushed around, no punches, no kicks, no knives.

Is it a fair assumption that what our witness see's is an attempt to make Liz Stride go away? Who knows, what is certain however, is that a lot can happen in fifteen minutes. It is impossible to even make an educated guess, based on the evidence we have, as to whether 'BSM' killed Liz Stride or not.

'he saw a man stop and speak to a woman, who was standing in the gateway. He tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway and the woman screamed three times, but not very loudly.'

If we take our witness literally, then her attacker tries to pull her onto the street not further into the shadows of the yard, further more....

'but finding that he was followed by the second man, he ran as far as the railway arch, but the man did not follow so far'.

....does this leave us with a witness to the rest of the attack, and if so, are we to suppose that 'BSM' kills Stride in full view of said witness??

It is an unanswerable question, at best it's a 50/50 guess.

[harry]

Why would BS kill Stride? A preplanned killing,or a sudden impulse?. Why let her recover from a helpless position on the ground before drawing and using the knife?.If pipeman and Schwartz were both leaving the scene,there was no reason to lure her into the yard,if BS merely wanted to cut her throat.A couple of seconds out there on the pavement and he could have left without hindrance.
It's not BS in my opinion.