Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[lynn cates]

0 to 60 in . . .

Hello Jon. Indeed. But is that not strange in itself? I mean, such an escalation in a couple seconds?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hello Jon. Indeed. But is that not strange in itself? I mean, such an escalation in a couple seconds?

Yes, whomever BS Man was he had major issues ...... wait a minute !!!!!

[lynn cates]

hot temper

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Yes, if he existed, he had a very hot temper.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

if he existed ? you mean Schwartz was on magic mushrooms or something?

[pinkmoon]

Hello lynn,after the passage of time I think one of the only things we can use are statistical frequencies

[Lechmere]

Pinkmoon
After that passage of time we would be advised to conform with what the contemporary investigators thought possible - and they did think it very possible. They would know better than we.

The BS man seems to have been drunk. If he was accosted by a prostitute - which seems to be the case, and it was unwelcome, which seems to have been the case, then pushing her off might not seem so out of the ordinary.

Jon
Opening her hand to release the cachous while being dragged - silently - into the yard would take a fraction of a second. There were people working in buildings in the yard.

[Jon Guy]

Jon
Opening her hand to release the cachous while being dragged - silently - into the yard would take a fraction of a second. There were people working in buildings in the yard.

Edward

Indeed, a fraction of a second. She obviously held them tightly as this happened, as the hand was only relaxing it`s grip on death.

[Lechmere]

Let’s look at the cachous in isolation
Option one – Stride was attacked outside the yard by the BS man and dragged in and killed.
Option two – Stride was killed by someone else and voluntarily went into the yard.
Option two would involve a swifter more sudden attack that would be more likely to enable the victim to retain hold of the cachous.
It is not impossible that Stride retained hold of the cachous under Option one, but it must be admitted that it is less likely.

Again in isolation, let’s look at the noise – or lack of it. Schwartz said he heard Stride call out softly – above any noise coming from the Club. Schwartz was by then on the opposite side of the road and a little further down.
Option one – The BS man violently dragged Stride into the small Yard which is surrounded by people who were awake and mostly working. None hear a thing.
Option two – Stride voluntarily went into the yard to, as quietly and discretely as possible, perform a sexual act with someone who she took to be a customer. In the course of this she is suddenly attacked.
Which is more likely to result in the people in the surrounding rooms not hearing a thing, even above any noise coming from the Club?
It is not impossible for it to be Option one. Maybe she was struck mute with fear. Such things do happen. But Option two is the more likely.

Once again in isolation, the timing.
Option one, the attack happened nearer 12.45 and the BS man was responsible.
Option two the attack happened nearer 1.00 and someone else was responsible.
Which is more likely? The wound seemed very fresh with the blood flowing. The culprit may well have been disturbed by Diemschutz.
While it is not impossible that the attack happened nearer 12.45, a timing nearer 1.00 seems more probable.

The police investigating this murder had no problem with the possibility that Stride may have been involved in an unrelated altercation prior to her being murdered.

The police also investigated the possibility that it was a domestic and rejected that notion.
They could have made a mistake of course, but the odds are stacked against someone suggesting such a course.
The BS man was described as being drunk. Again this would not specifically rule him out but the likelihood must be that the culprit had his wits about him to escape detection.

Pretty much everything suggests the fatal attack was not carried out by the BS man.

[lynn cates]

stuck

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"If he existed? You mean Schwartz was on magic mushrooms or something?"

Surely we are not stuck at this stage?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

history

Hello Jason. Thanks.

"I think one of the only things we can use are statistical frequencies."

Indeed? Well, for what are we using them? To write history perhaps?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

location, location, location

Hello Edward.

If Liz were going into the yard to perform sex, would it not be more likely that she and her client would get between gate and building?

Take away the cachous, and place her crumpled body between building and gate, and I'd be a convert.

But, as it is, she is BEYOND that point. If she is there for sex, then she is heedless of interruption from a passerby.

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

The entrance to Duffield's Yard was narrow and the gate was open.
Stride was found some two yards or so inside the yard which was totally dark.
Had she progressed with her intended act then I have no doubt she would have closed the gate (and pocketed the cashous if that is your worry) - but then again perhaps due to the darkness it was not necessary.

The point is the police were convinced she was a prostitute going about her business when killed. I see nothing to contradict this.
The location in which she was found was similar to the other victims - a spot suitable for the conduct of that business.

Why should we look for another explanation for how she ended up in that location?
There is a slight possibility that she was dragged there unwillingly by her assailant, but for reasons already stated this has to be the least favoured possibility.

The explanation for what is likely to have transpired - without a named suspect of course - was pretty efficiently gone over at the time and has been passed down. Second guessing the investigators on these issues is not likely to reap dividends.

[Wickerman]

You're on a roll there Lechmere, three well reasoned posts (#460/473/477).

[lynn cates]

Let's go home.

Hello Edward. Thanks.

"The point is the police were convinced she was a prostitute going about her business when killed. I see nothing to contradict this."

Or to affirm it, for that matter.

"The location in which she was found was similar to the other victims - a spot suitable for the conduct of that business."

Not a bit of it. And closing the gates would not help. If anything. one would wish the gate to be open whilst being between it and the building. But, as we know, that was not the case.

And if second guessing the investigators is not fruitful, what are we all doing here? After all, they THOUGHT the case not solved.

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

Ah Wickerman, that carries the implication that my previous 2,000 odd posts were not well reasoned!