Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[Garry Wroe]

Dealing in absolutes is bad policy without the data to back it up.

I'm not dealing in absolutes. I'm citing the evidence, which in this instance is unequivocal. Nothing about the Stride murder accords with the Ripper's normal crime scene behaviour.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Possibly Lynn, giving her time to scream, lash out, grasp at something?"

Could be. But I have shown this CAN be done in the 2-3 second range.

Hello Lynn.
I have no doubt your video adequately represents one theory.


The main interest in any video re-enactment is to see if a particular sequence of body movements can happen naturally, even holding on to the cachous.

How do we discern 'naturally' from 'intentionally' when the players in the video also knew the outcome?

Personally Lynn, I have no doubt a variety of scenario's are not only feasible, but also possible, but how to decide which is the true result?

Video's of all contending theories may also show they are all equally possible.

[lynn cates]

alternatives

Hello Jon. Thanks.

In my very first post with that video, I said something like, "I look forward to all other versions." I meant that--and still do.

Sadly, at this posting, I have had no takers. But Jon Simons is to do one this Autumn.

And, you are quite right--all that is required is that the sequence be physically possible and coordinate with what we know of the body position, etc.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

In my very first post with that video, I said something like, "I look forward to all other versions." I meant that--and still do.

Sadly, at this posting, I have had no takers. But Jon Simons is to do one this Autumn.

And, you are quite right--all that is required is that the sequence be physically possible and coordinate with what we know of the body position, etc.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

It is not every interested Casebooker who has a spouse or friend willing to go through the motions. I know my wife was not, she thinks the whole question of JtR is pointless - coming from a Big Brother fan, that is rich

But you get my point...

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

As I have said before, the whole body position thing makes no sense to me so I am pretty sure I will regret this. Now if Liz died in the killer's arms as he was holding her up, it would seem to me that he could have laid her down with her feet facing any of the Cardinal directions. Assuming that he simply wanted her on the ground and the direction her feet were facing was of no concern to him, how are we to discern any significant information from the direction her feet were facing AFTER she died?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

handicap

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Quite. But, unfortunately, until one does it--in theory or in practise--one is placed under considerable handicap.

I had gone through EVERY motion mentally before I tried it in the sensuous manifold (apologies to Kant). The reproduction fit like hand in glove--nothing strained.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

forensics

Hello CD. Thanks.

"As I have said before, the whole body position thing makes no sense to me. . ."

Understood. But until it does, you are laden with a disadvantage. No offense, but in one of the Rathbone films, Le Strade thought some chap had broken INTO the house, that is, until Holmes pointed out that the glass shards were OUTSIDE the house. This made it more likely that he was breaking OUT.

"Now if Liz died in the killer's arms as he was holding her up, it would seem to me that he could have laid her down with her feet facing any of the Cardinal directions."

Indeed. But now one must account for her dying. Did her heart stop and she swoon? Very well. She would be the proverbial limp dishrag and the cachous would be spilled.

But she held them. So, perhaps a move to the throat to bring her off balance? Then the cachous would be preserved. Now, from what direction does he administer this movement? Face to face? Then how comes it that he "Lays her down gently"?

"Assuming that he simply wanted her on the ground and the direction her feet were facing was of no concern to him, how are we to discern any significant information from the direction her feet were facing AFTER she died?"

See above.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I do appreciate your response but it seems like my initial instinct was correct and that along with calculus and why people are interested in the Kardashians this is something that I will simply never understand.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

extraterrestrials et al

Hello CD. Thanks.

If, by Kardashians, you refer to a mythical race from another planet, I suppose the interest lies in diverse life forms. However, if you refer to a family of people who, so far as I can tell, do nothing but get talked about for no earthly reason, then I share your perplexity.

Calculus? Actually, it is rather simple. If you understand what a function is and what a rate is, you are nearly half way there.

But as regards Liz--try laying a person down gently so that she makes contact with her left side only. Be sure she does not lose what she has between thumb and forefinger, etc. Now, mark her feet.

See what I mean?

Cheers.
LC

[harry]

What I fail to understand,is why,when she is on the ground and helpless in the initial assault,and the only intention was to kill by cutting the throat,it wasn't done then.The only likely help to her was leaving the immediate area,and there was no other person to interrupt.BS w as,in the circumstances, taking an unnecessary risk in delaying.For what reason?

[Jon Guy]

In my very first post with that video, I said something like, "I look forward to all other versions." I meant that--and still do.

Sadly, at this posting, I have had no takers. But Jon Simons is to do one this Autumn.

Sadly Lynn, due to the controversial nature of my act the organisers of the Ripper Conference 2013 have distanced themselves and it now looks highly unlikely that I will be performing at this autiumn`s event.

It is equally frustrating for me as I had just obtained permission from the local council to wrestle Fliss, my sheep, in Berner St.
I`m still hoping that Adam and the Team will have a change of heart, none of the animals I have performed with in the past have been hurt and Fliss and I will continue to rehearse our spectacular Cachous Tightrope Walk Finale.

Thank you for your support. Lynn.

[lynn cates]

sad

Hello Jon. Thanks.

That is sad indeed. Not sure why it would be controversial?

But, thus it goes.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Harry

What I fail to understand,is why,when she is on the ground and helpless in the initial assault,and the only intention was to kill by cutting the throat,it wasn't done then.

Do we know for sure it wasn't done then, the three "not loud" screams being her swansong?

The only likely help to her was leaving the immediate area,and there was no other person to interrupt.BS w as,in the circumstances, taking an unnecessary risk in delaying.For what reason?

It could be that BS finished off the killing but was sufficiently disturbed by Schwartz and Pipeman having seen him that he scarpered...he wasn't to know they'd not immediately stumble on a copper...

All the best

Dave

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Cogi

Your last line is way too reasonable and sensible. I'm gonna insist that you stop putting forth non-ridiculous ideas. This is your only and final warning. Actually, nevermind. Proceed please.

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

If, by Kardashians, you refer to a mythical race from another planet, I suppose the interest lies in diverse life forms. However, if you refer to a family of people who, so far as I can tell, do nothing but get talked about for no earthly reason, then I share your perplexity.

Calculus? Actually, it is rather simple. If you understand what a function is and what a rate is, you are nearly half way there.

But as regards Liz--try laying a person down gently so that she makes contact with her left side only. Be sure she does not lose what she has between thumb and forefinger, etc. Now, mark her feet.

See what I mean?

Cheers.
LC

Ok. So what conclusion are we to draw from this?

c.d.