Why No Stride Mutilations ?

[c.d.]

The cachous and lack of a struggle indicate that Stride's guard was down when she was killed. Slipping off into the privacy of the yard with a lover/punter dovetails perfectly with the forensic evidence. A relaxed Stride going into the yard with her assailant or a rando after being roughed up, frankly doesn't.

Yep, you're right on the money there, Harry. Her guard being down is key and I think it eliminates B.S. man as her killer.

c.d.

[c.d.]

I think it more likely B.S man attacks Stride almost immediately after Schwartz and Pipeman run off. Stride may have managed to keep hold of the Cachous during the assault witnessed by Schwartz. According to Schwartz B.S man turned Stride around and threw her to the ground. With her back to him he immediately reaches for the scarf and pulls it tight. Stride has little time to think or compose herself before the attack. It is so sudden she freezes and loses consciousness fairly quickly.

B.S man spooked by the Schwartz and Pipeman incident has second thoughts about mutilating the body. They could be returning with a Policeman for all he knew. That would spook him into thinking better of it rather than have a Policeman happen onto the scene. Just a thought for possible scenario. The killer escapes up Berner Street, composes himself and then sets off for Whitechapel Road probably intentionally crossing into City Police territory- he was likely expecting considerable Police panic within Whitechapel. Then he meets and kills Eddowes.

Hello Sunny,

Except that Stride is not killed where she was seen by Schwartz. He had to get her back into the yard. Could she have gone voluntarily? Yes, but I think that is unlikely. If he had to force her and she is fighting for her life, I don't see the cachous surviving that.

Second thoughts about mutilating the body because of a returning P.C.? But if he is being that rational why kill her in the first place after being seen? And if he was so angry that he just didn't care why stop at just a cut to the throat? Why not multiple stabs to the body?

c.d.

[Sunny Delight]

Hello Sunny,

Except that Stride is not killed where she was seen by Schwartz. He had to get her back into the yard. Could she have gone voluntarily? Yes, but I think that is unlikely. If he had to force her and she is fighting for her life, I don't see the cachous surviving that.

Second thoughts about mutilating the body because of a returning P.C.? But if he is being that rational why kill her in the first place after being seen? And if he was so angry that he just didn't care why stop at just a cut to the throat? Why not multiple stabs to the body?

c.d.

Yes he pulls her into the yard by the scarf. She may have been in the process of getting up when B.S man did this. Stride is taken completely by suprise. Something spooked B.S man into fleeing. Did he think better of it? Something happened though to make him leave without performing mutilation. He has just been involved minutes before in an altercation with Stride in full view of two witnesses? Does that spook him into fleeing? Is it the noise from the club? Is it hearing something at the side entrance? Is it just a combination of being seen in an altercation, noise from the club, poor location. He just thinks better of it and flees shortly before Mortimer returns to her door and Goldstein passes a few minutes later?

[Aethelwulf]

Yes he pulls her into the yard by the scarf. She may have been in the process of getting up when B.S man did this. Stride is taken completely by suprise. Something spooked B.S man into fleeing. Did he think better of it? Something happened though to make him leave without performing mutilation. He has just been involved minutes before in an altercation with Stride in full view of two witnesses? Does that spook him into fleeing? Is it the noise from the club? Is it hearing something at the side entrance? Is it just a combination of being seen in an altercation, noise from the club, poor location. He just thinks better of it and flees shortly before Mortimer returns to her door and Goldstein passes a few minutes later?

the path of least resistance through this mess suggests BS man finished what he started. Anything else is a lot less likely IMO. How it was done, who knows. we can't be sure Schwartz's interpretation was spot on - he saw a scuffle with the some 'not very loud' screams. perhaps these two were known to each other in some way and stride was persuaded to go into the yard. I can't help thinking if BS man was a total stranger she would have been screaming very loudly. Or perhaps she went in there alone and he crept up on her.

As for pipe man the shining knight, this seems highly unlikely to me. BS man caused a disturbance with stride and added to this with his Lipski shout. Attention has been drawn to this area, other people may be looking, police might arrive. If pipe man was the ripper I think he would have been out of there. However, I can see it much more likely that BS man finished what he started before leaving.

[c.d.]

Hello Sunny,

If Stride is pulled into the yard by her scarf, wouldn't her natural reaction be to try and get her hand in between the scarf and her neck to pull it away? If so, doesn't that require an open hand? And if her hand were open, wouldn't the cachous have spilled out?

c.d.

[GBinOz]

The cachous and lack of a struggle indicate that Stride's guard was down when she was killed. Slipping off into the privacy of the yard with a lover/punter dovetails perfectly with the forensic evidence. A relaxed Stride going into the yard with her assailant or a rando after being roughed up, frankly doesn't.

Yep, you're right on the money there, Harry. Her guard being down is key and I think it eliminates B.S. man as her killer.

c.d.

Hi c.d.

Would I be right in inferring that you are advocating Parcelman as the culprit? If so, what is your hypothesis as to his whereabouts during the Schwartz incident?

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Is it a historical fact the every clock in whitechapel was out by 10/15 mins or just the ones we want to be out .? That would be silly wouldnt it ?

Fishy,

The fact is we don't know which clocks were out, or by how much, or in which direction. We do know that guessing elapsed time from seeing an unsynchronised clock does not produce an accurate to the minute ( or ten minute) time stamp.

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

Fishy,

The fact is we don't know which clocks were out, or by how much, or in which direction. We do know that guessing elapsed time from seeing an unsynchronised clock does not produce an accurate to the minute ( or ten minute) time stamp.

Cheers, George

So in the end Schwartz , Eagle, Diemschutz Blackwell , were just as likely to be right or wrong with there times .

As were Fanny Mortimer , Lave , P.C lamb . James Brown .etc etc

[c.d.]

Hi c.d.

Would I be right in inferring that you are advocating Parcelman as the culprit? If so, what is your hypothesis as to his whereabouts during the Schwartz incident?

Cheers, George

No, George. I think Jack killed her and I don't think he was the B.S. man or the Parcelman. I have no idea where Jack might have been during the Schwartz incident but he would have had to have been close by. I have no way of knowing whether he might have witnessed the incident with Stride and the B.S. man.

c.d.

[FISHY1118]

No, George. I think Jack killed her and I don't think he was the B.S. man or the Parcelman. I have no idea where Jack might have been during the Schwartz incident but he would have had to have been close by. I have no way of knowing whether he might have witnessed the incident with Stride and the B.S. man.

c.d.

Whos the more likely to have been Strides killer ?, B.S man who was seen assaulting Stride by a witness 15 mins befor he body was discovered . Or an unseen ghost .

I cant for the life of me think why so much importants is given to a Phantom killer when we have a much more likely killer in B.S man .Go Figure.

[Sunny Delight]

Hello Sunny,

If Stride is pulled into the yard by her scarf, wouldn't her natural reaction be to try and get her hand in between the scarf and her neck to pull it away? If so, doesn't that require an open hand? And if her hand were open, wouldn't the cachous have spilled out?

c.d.

Stride was strangled by the scarf pulled tight. The cachous remained in her hand. No matter who the culprit was that question will always remain, How did someone manage to subdue her and cut her throat without the cachous falling out of her hand? I don't neccessarily see how that can rule out B.S man for instance but no one else?

[c.d.]

Whos the more likely to have been Strides killer ?, B.S man who was seen assaulting Stride by a witness 15 mins befor he body was discovered . Or an unseen ghost .

I cant for the life of me think why so much importants is given to a Phantom killer when we have a much more likely killer in B.S man .Go Figure.

Hello Fishy,

And what did this vicious assault consist of? She was pushed to the ground that's it.

Was it a "Phantom Killer" or "Unseen Ghost" that killed Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly? Or someone of flesh and blood?

Just because event "A" preceded event "B" it doesn't necessarily mean that event "A" caused event "B."

And don't forget that Chief Inspector Donald Swanson, who was there at the time and had all of the facts at his disposal, allowed for the possibility of a killer other than the B.S. man. Go figure.

c.d.

[Sunny Delight]

Hello Fishy,

And what did this vicious assault consist of? She was pushed to the ground that's it.

Was it a "Phantom Killer" or "Unseen Ghost" that killed Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly? Or someone of flesh and blood?

Just because event "A" preceded event "B" it doesn't necessarily mean that event "A" caused event "B."

And don't forget that Chief Inspector Donald Swanson, who was there at the time and had all of the facts at his disposal, allowed for the possibility of a killer other than the B.S. man. Go figure.

c.d.

Well actually Schwartz said B.S man turned Stride around and threw her to the ground. Have you ever tried to physically turn someone around and throw them to the ground? I imagine it would take quite a bit of force. Obviously this guy was very physically strong. If was quite a bit more than merely witnessing someone being pushed to the ground.

[c.d.]

Well actually Schwartz said B.S man turned Stride around and threw her to the ground. Have you ever tried to physically turn someone around and throw them to the ground? I imagine it would take quite a bit of force. Obviously this guy was very physically strong. If was quite a bit more than merely witnessing someone being pushed to the ground.

Ok. She was turned around and pushed. But we have no idea of the amount of force used or the actual intent behind it. It is certainly conceivable that Stride simply tried to pull away and fell. We don't know. Either way turning someone around and pushing them is hardly a violent assault.

c.d.

[c.d.]

It is also possible that Stride herself was the aggressor in this whole incident. In the thread I started "A Modern Day B.S. Man/Stride Encounter" that was actually the case. The woman was the aggressor and the guy pushed her away to free himself from her. I only knew this because they were speaking English. But imagine me trying to describe the incident if the woman had fallen after being pushed and me not understanding English.

c.d.