Why No Stride Mutilations ?

[FISHY1118]

If he said "possible", then that means he accepts that Kidney possibly isn't as well, leaving him, like me, to make a qualified answer. He might weight the probabilities differently than I do, he may lean more or less in favour of Kidney than I do, but unless he says "Kidney was her killer", then he's just suggesting that he might have been, and therefore might not have been as well.

A lot of people are undecided on whether or not Stride was a victim of JtR, and for those who are undecided, if she's not then clearly Kidney becomes a person worth considering given most murders are by someone close to the victim. It doesn't mean it has to be him, but he becomes worthy of a closer look. For those who do not allow for Stride to be a victim of anyone other than JtR, then given there's nothing to tie Kidney to the other murders, he becomes just another person we know about but otherwise unlikely to be JtR.

- Jeff

Heres the point im trying to make tho Jeff , and you hit the nail on the head in saying he ''might weigh up the ''probabilities'' , just what are these probabilities ?? Theres isnt any !!!. Like Lechmere, Kidney has no evidence that ties him or had any suspicion cast on him for the murder of his Mrs Liz Stride.

Its not enough to say ''Oh he has shown a tendencies to be violent towards her'' and that she had him charged with assault ,every man and his dog was assaulting their misses back then, as someone else pointed out .

The probabilities that should come more into play when discussing Kidney is the other way round. Surley with what we know, and his inquest testimony, lack of any witness i.d, and nothing all that on that night points to him being anywhere near Berner st to kill Stride .

The ''Probablity'' is more in favour of Kidneys innocence than that of his guilt .


I think some attempt should be made to eliminate these type of ''so called suspects'' from these forums. It indeed will go along way to stop the clutter of useless to and froming which in the end [ well thats just it it never ends ] leads nowhere.

There cant be 100 different killers .

[JeffHamm]

If someone advocates Kidney as Strides possible killer, which Trevor has done, then option B is all that matters .


[ I think he thinks kidney actually is , but i say ''possible'' only becasue he will say thats what he said as a way to wiggle out of what he believes]

If he said "possible", then that means he accepts that Kidney possibly isn't as well, leaving him, like me, to make a qualified answer. He might weight the probabilities differently than I do, he may lean more or less in favour of Kidney than I do, but unless he says "Kidney was her killer", then he's just suggesting that he might have been, and therefore might not have been as well.

A lot of people are undecided on whether or not Stride was a victim of JtR, and for those who are undecided, if she's not then clearly Kidney becomes a person worth considering given most murders are by someone close to the victim. It doesn't mean it has to be him, but he becomes worthy of a closer look. For those who do not allow for Stride to be a victim of anyone other than JtR, then given there's nothing to tie Kidney to the other murders, he becomes just another person we know about but otherwise unlikely to be JtR.

- Jeff

[Mark J D]

... I do believe the murderer was unsettled (not nessacerrily disrupted) by somebodies coming and goings that night...

Good call! The Lechmere family knew the Marshalls on the next block; we know that William Marshall was looking at the road that night and even saw Stride with a man. With all of Lechmere's other connections with that little set of roads -- he'd just moved out of James Street, and his mother & second stepfather & eldest daughter still lived in Maryann Street -- this is exactly the location where one would predict an anomalous murder.

M.

[FISHY1118]

While I can't speak for Trevor, or anyone else for that matter, I'm happy to give a qualified answer. I don't know if Stride was a victim of JtR, a case can be made either way, as has been done for over 130 years.

So,

A) if Stride is a JtR victim, or was killed by someone other than JtR but not Kidney, then it seems unlikely that Kidney would lie, except maybe about how good their relationship was and whether or not he had knowledge of her engaging in occasional prostitution (he would run the risk of living off immoral income, or something like that). However based upon what we know there would be no benefit to him to lie about whether or not he had seen her since Tuesday if he had not.

B) if Kidney killed Stride, whether or not he's JtR, he has every reason to lie in order to distance himself from being in her presence, and since he says he hadn't seen her since Tuesday, and we're considering him as her killer in this situation, that would have to be a lie.

Problem is, we cannot be sure which of those situations is true, and so whether he lied or not cannot be positively determined. Moreover, given that there might be reasons we do not know about but result in him choosing to lie (he did see her on the night, they quarrelled, but as he didn't kill her he's aware that might still get him in trouble despite being innocent, for example), working out that he lied doesn't in and of itself prove he killed her. It would, however, not look good for him given option B, where if he killed her he has every reason to lie.

- Jeff

If someone advocates Kidney as Strides possible killer, which Trevor has done, then option B is all that matters .


[ I think he thinks kidney actually is , but i say ''possible'' only becasue he will say thats what he said as a way to wiggle out of what he believes]

[JeffHamm]

Yes but your not stating whats painfully obvious to all to see , that is its just a fact ,and i know your big on them so here it is. For Kidney to be Strides murderer he must have lied under oath at an official murder inquest .[forget all about this confict nonsense with other withnesses ,thats irrelevant] .

Now seeing how you support the possiblity of kidney being the murderer of Stride, ill ask again .


Did Kidney lie at the inquest of Liz Stride . ?????? Yes/No

While I can't speak for Trevor, or anyone else for that matter, I'm happy to give a qualified answer. I don't know if Stride was a victim of JtR, a case can be made either way, as has been done for over 130 years.

So,

A) if Stride is a JtR victim, or was killed by someone other than JtR but not Kidney, then it seems unlikely that Kidney would lie, except maybe about how good their relationship was and whether or not he had knowledge of her engaging in occasional prostitution (he would run the risk of living off immoral income, or something like that). However based upon what we know there would be no benefit to him to lie about whether or not he had seen her since Tuesday if he had not.

B) if Kidney killed Stride, whether or not he's JtR, he has every reason to lie in order to distance himself from being in her presence, and since he says he hadn't seen her since Tuesday, and we're considering him as her killer in this situation, that would have to be a lie.

Problem is, we cannot be sure which of those situations is true, and so whether he lied or not cannot be positively determined. Moreover, given that there might be reasons we do not know about but result in him choosing to lie (he did see her on the night, they quarrelled, but as he didn't kill her he's aware that might still get him in trouble despite being innocent, for example), working out that he lied doesn't in and of itself prove he killed her. It would, however, not look good for him given option B, where if he killed her he has every reason to lie.

- Jeff

[FISHY1118]

As I keep stating their is a conflict between Kidney and other witnesses you make up your own mind where the truth lays.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Yes but your not stating whats painfully obvious to all to see , that is its just a fact ,and i know your big on them so here it is. For Kidney to be Strides murderer he must have lied under oath at an official murder inquest .[forget all about this confict nonsense with other withnesses ,thats irrelevant] .

Now seeing how you support the possiblity of kidney being the murderer of Stride, ill ask again .


Did Kidney lie at the inquest of Liz Stride . ?????? Yes/No

[harry]

Was it Stride who Schwartz saw at the gateway? He(Schwartz) saw probably as much of the woman,as he did of the person he followed,yet while he can describe the male in some detail.did he(schwartz) detail the the clothes and appearance of the female?

[Abby Normal]

Obviously, I meant a named suspect, Abby!

no i know, i wasnt ragging on you, just pointing out the difference (and agreeing with you, and not trevor)between the domestic who they knew exactly who the killer was and stride and eddowes, who, while they dont know exactly who killed her, knew it was an active serial killer.

[Wickerman]

Its not ridiculous someone killed Stride and it was not JTR

True, but that is not what I wrote.

The witnesses only got brief glimpses of these men seen with Stride and we do not know if either of them were the killer it was dark and so any form of identification would be suspect and we have almost a 15 minute window in which Stride could have met her killer and it need not have been the two seen in close proximity to her. So Kidney should not be ruled out on that basis.

...and that was not the basis I used either.

You cannot ignore the fact thats his previous history with her shows a propensity towards violence and he might have made sure he wasnt seen so he would not needed have been worried about appearing in court.

But domestic violence was common place in this period and especially in this part of town. You are implying it was unique enough to make Kidney a suspect, which is not true.

[Harry D]

except the ripper- based on sig and MO and a seen suspect wearing a peaked cap at both murder sites.

Obviously, I meant a named suspect, Abby!

[Herlock Sholmes]

JTR did not write the graffiti will that do you ?

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Fact or opinion?

[Trevor Marriott]

But you seem to be arguing that a guilty person just walks into an inquest in front of police, press & public, risking being identified by any of the witnesses, and just pretends to be innocent. Kidney had no idea who was to show up in court, the idea is ridiculous to say the least.

Its not ridiculous someone killed Stride and it was not JTR

The witnesses only got brief glimpses of these men seen with Stride and we do not know if either of them were the killer it was dark and so any form of identification would be suspect and we have almost a 15 minute window in which Stride could have met her killer and it need not have been the two seen in close proximity to her. So Kidney should not be ruled out on that basis.

You cannot ignore the fact thats his previous history with her shows a propensity towards violence and he might have made sure he wasnt seen so he would not needed have been worried about appearing in court.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

if BS man wasn't Jtr and shouted the lipski comment, where does that leave the GSG (don't need to hear anymore about trevor's makeshift sanitary towels and hair pins thank you)

JTR did not write the graffiti will that do you ?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Aethelwulf]

if BS man wasn't Jtr and shouted the lipski comment, where does that leave the GSG (don't need to hear anymore about trevor's makeshift sanitary towels and hair pins thank you)

[Parisi North Humber]

And it did it again.
so keeping short.
Caschous where not just used to sweeten the breath, but also used to take away nasy tastes.
I'm going now before my phone makes up a ripper data profile for me.

Helen x