Where is Liz Stride?

[DRoy]

Observer & Mike,

Why do you have that perception of Mortimer? She said she was standing at her door "nearly the whole time". She didn't say periodically, she didn't say she was baking a pie and she didn't say she was busy swatting flies!

She follows that up by saying she heard commotion outside. Then she says "there was certainly no noise made" when talking about Liz being murdered. If she could be so sure no noise was made then it must be because she would have heard it. In other words, she knows how sound travelled and obviously feels she has great hearing. So great in fact she heard what she said was a policeman's heavy stomp. She heard this from inside her house so even if she was in her house she would have heard Liz scream unless Liz's scream was whispered!

The problem I have with Mortimer is she didn't testify at the inquest. Was she ignored she didn't see Liz or hear BS Man abusing her? Here again, I'd ask the same question as before...

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

translation

Hello Roy. Thanks.

Ah! Direct translation from the Yiddish.

Cheers.
LC

[DRoy]

Greg,

It is an oxymoron but that's what Schwartz said, not me. Wait, apparently that's what he said.

Cheers
DRoy

[The Good Michael]

It's plain to me that Mortimer didn't stand at her front door for the full 30 minutes. Not only would she have saw Schwartz and BS, she would also have saw PC Smith, Liz Stride, and the young man with the paper parcel. Regarding the three screams, we don't tend to hear everything from inside our houses, especially when occupied doing some chore or task. Mr's M, could well have been chasing some pesky fly around the house, swatter in hand. She could well have been re-potting that root bound aspidistra, or even applying flea powder to her loppy cat. She could easily have been arm wrestling her husband. So you see, the attack upon Stride could well have taken place as Schwartz indicated, but Mr's M didn't in fact hear those screams.

I agree. It was as if she kept going back inside to check on a pie or something. I think if she even was out at all, she wasn't paying any attention and was happy to just talk to the police.

Mike

[Observer]

Hi DRoy

It's plain to me that Mortimer didn't stand at her front door for the full 30 minutes. Not only would she have saw Schwartz and BS, she would also have saw PC Smith, Liz Stride, and the young man with the paper parcel. Regarding the three screams, we don't tend to hear everything from inside our houses, especially when occupied doing some chore or task. Mr's M, could well have been chasing some pesky fly around the house, swatter in hand. She could well have been re-potting that root bound aspidistra, or even applying flea powder to her loppy cat. She could easily have been arm wrestling her husband. So you see, the attack upon Stride could well have taken place as Schwartz indicated, but Mr's M didn't in fact hear those screams.

Regards

Observer

[GregBaron]

Just the facts Jack...

Lynn,

Dimshits...I laugh every time you use it

Cheers
DRoy

This is indeed a giggler, it's even better that dumbshits.....

why wouldn't she hear Liz scream even if it wasn't that loudly?

Isn't this an oxymoron? Does this mean Liz knew her attacker and was like "Oh god, not you again, get away" kind of thing......Just thinkin'?

Dictionary.com defines a scream thusly: to emit a shrill, piercing sound

Scream not loudly?

I also don't think Schwartzenneger made up stuff. He may have been incorrectly quoted but I doubt the translator made up things either. It's certainly possible but brings to mind the old spy thriller intrigue...


Greg

[DRoy]

To all,

Besides Jon Guy, nobody has answered what I feel is an important question. Is Schwartz believed because he claims to have seem something where Mortimer didn't?

Mortimer said she was almost outside her door the whole time (12:30 - 1:00) which is being interpreted that's how she missed BS Man and Liz. However, she heard loud steps and could hear the commotion when Liz was found so why wouldn't she hear Liz scream even if it wasn't that loudly?

Cheers
DRoy

[Jon Guy]

Hi DRoy

If Mortimer could hear steps, wouldn't she also hear Liz screaming three times even if it wasn't very loud?

Not necessarily. The steps were right oustide her door yet the three not very loud screams were around the corner of the club inside the gates.

[DRoy]

Lynn,

Dimshits...I laugh every time you use it

Cheers
DRoy

[Observer]

Reverse psychology?

Mike

You mean they were going to charge two bob, but decided on a tanner to illustrate that not all Jews are tight as a fishes behind?

Regards

Observer

[lynn cates]

what he said

Hello Abby.

Dimshits might have been used had they thought him convincing.

"do we really believe a new immigrant Jew with a a family is really going to risk everything to lie and obstruct a murder case in a newly foreign country to him"

Well, not if he spoke English and were aware of what the translator was saying. But for all we know, Israel may have been giving his Aunt Rebekah's recipe for knishes whilst the translator did the BS.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hi DRoy,

If you check your post above, the concerns you have are all related to how these witnesses fit in with Israel Schwartz's story. If Israel was actually a club attendee that night, which makes more sense than the story he provides,... and perhaps a member...being a local Immigrant Jew himself.....then the explanation as to why he does not appear in any transcript recordings during the Stride Inquest may be that his story was considered tainted if they discovered a connection between him and the club.

Someone apparently has discovered that Schwartz and William "Wolff" Wess were acquainted a few years before this event...if so, isnt it likely that Mr Theatrically dressed Schwartz might aid his pal by coming forward with a story that in essence, absolves the club and its attendees of any sort of guilt in the murder of Liz Stride. If Schwartz did see what he says he saw then BS man is almost certainly the killer. And he was from off premises. It also paints a gentile picture of the killer...something again in their favor. Its far too convenient for me.

If youre really interested in how the witnesses and timings line up then I suggest you remove the Schwartz incident completely, as at the Inquest, and see what comes up.

Eagle and Lave both are club affiliates, Wess is also, Diemshutz is as well. Check their statements after removing the scuffle in front of the gates at around 12:45 and what do you see? I see club members trying very hard to deflect suspicion from themselves.

All the best DRoy

Ive said this before but I will repeat: Why would the club members come up with such a convoluted "witness" and story in Scwartz when they had a real witness in Diemschitz? He could have just said he saw a man with a bloody knife run away yelling dam Jews as he entered the yard.

Also, do we really beleive a new immigrant jew with a a family is really going to risk everything to lie and obstruct a murder case in a newly foriegn country to him(let alone the moral implications)????? I think not.

[The Good Michael]

Bear also in mind that it was reported that certain members of the club were charging sixpence a shot showing members of the public the spot where Liz Stride was found. Hardly the sort of behavior to adopt should the club wish to disassociate itself from involvment in the murder.

Reverse psychology?

Mike

[Observer]

Sorry for that previous response, I misread a news article.

It seems we are in agreement with respect to the club's perception of their non-involvement in the murder.
The investigation on the premises was concluded long before Schwartz came forward late Sunday afternoon, so no reason for a conspiracy involving deception.

.

Hi Wickerman

Bear also in mind that it was reported that certain members of the club were charging sixpence a shot showing members of the public the spot where Liz Stride was found. Hardly the sort of behavior to adopt should the club wish to disassociate itself from involvment in the murder.

[lynn cates]

standing

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Maybe, if she had stood at her doorway for the whole time, but she hadn't."

Part of my point.

"Didn't she think she heard the footsteps of a policeman pass her door?"

Indeed. What time did she indicate for this?

Cheers.
LC