Where is Liz Stride?

[Paddy]

Question

Does anybody know if there was an outside toilet in Dutfields yard and did the members of the club use it?
I was just thinking if people were drinking that night wouldnt there have been a lot more traffic in the yard?
Pat........

[lynn cates]

spiffy

Hello Mike. Thanks.

I guess I have a problem with a spiffy char woman.

Which Jewish holiday was coming up?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

"It appears that Stride took particular care over her appearance that night. (Clothes brush etc).
Phil

Prostitutes are human beings. They take shower and even brush their teeth.
(Their clients don't necessirily take that pain, alas.)
Before soliciting, women try their best to look pretty and attractive.
Well, as much as possible.
Remember how Nichols was proud of her "jolly bonnet".

[Michael W Richards]

To Caz,

I think that you are underestimating the risks here, and that's why you cannot make sense of an argument that relies on that premise.

Heres another point...IF Fanny Mortimer was true to her word and spent the time from approx. 12:50 until 1am at her door continuously, and IF Louis Diemshitz told the truth about his arrival time, and if Goldstein hurried "past" the gates rather than out of them....then when is the killer?

He's inside the yard or the passageway...or one of the cottages. Or he is in the club. When does he leave...and if he doesn't leave, then doesn't that insinuate that he is among the members or hangers on after the meeting...someone known by the club?

Cheers Caz

[Michael W Richards]

Hi again,

Im not sure that the flower signifies a social engagement rather than perhaps a working one Lynn, but when coupled with breath fresheners it does make some sense. Ive never rejected the idea that she was there for an arranged date, as you know, but I have begun to feel that circumstantially there might be a better argument for work.

Be it cleaning the club that night, or meeting someone for whom she intended to work for the Jewish holiday coming up.

All the best Lynn

[lynn cates]

preponderance of the evidence

Hello Phil. Thanks.

"But I see the possibility of Liz waiting for someone as (given the care of her preparations) more likely than that she was soliciting that night."

Don't disagree. Slight preponderance of the evidence in this direction.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

"We will never know." - O ye of little faith.

I cannot see that we will ever unearth evidence to give us insight into Liz's motives or intentions.

"It appears that Stride took particular care over her appearance that night. (Clothes brush etc). Her "beau" appears to have bought her a flower."

Possibly, but not necessarily, the case.

Precisely why I used the word "appears" re both statements.

Very well. But it seems, then, he was sympathetic to the club? Surely not an Orthodox Jew?

You seek to go further than our information will allow (on the basis of my speculation). Perhaps he knew someone who was a member of the Club and called to see them? On the other hand he may never have gone near the Club at all (or been Jewish). Again, I am playing with ideas. But I see the possibility of Liz waiting for someone as (given the care of her preparations) more likely than that she was soliciting that night.

Another possibility is that she was engaged in some sort of scam. We have no idea how many other people she conned into thinking she was their sister or whatever.

But I continue to prefer the view that she was murderered by her ex-lover over her being a Ripper-victim (though I am far from closed to that idea) on the basis of location, relative to Whitechapel High St as well as the exposure to passing people; the lack of mutilation; and the interpretation of her intentions that night. If Scwartz was accurate in his account of what he saw (and of that I have some doubts) the sequence of events might well fit an encounter with Kidney. I also believe that the word heard was "Lizzie!" not "Lipski!".

But you are equally free to hold your own view and to disagree with my analysis.

Phil

[lynn cates]

"Wherfore didst thou doubt?"

Hello Phil.

"We will never know."

O ye of little faith.

"It appears that Stride took particular care over her appearance that night. (Clothes brush etc). Her "beau" appears to have bought her a flower."

Possibly, but not necessarily, the case.

"Maybe he (a Jew ? - she seems to have worked for Jewish familes as a cleaner) needed to call at the IWM Club and she waited outside."

Very well. But it seems, then, he was sympathetic to the club? Surely not an Orthodox Jew?

But if sympathetic to the club, why not attend the Feigenbaum lecture?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Cross

Hello Caroline. Thanks.

"which seems to make some a bit cross."

Tsk! Lechmere! (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Give me your evidence then Jon re the flower.

For the rest, your interpretation, NOT mine.

Phil

[Jon Guy]

Hi Phil

[B]It appears that Stride took particular care over her apiearance that night. (Clothes brusih etc).

She wore the same clothes (her only clothes) in which she cleaned up after the men who were in the house white washing a couple of rooms.
She asked to borrow a clothes brush, but was refused. I imagine that she just wanted to get some residue of the white wash off her black coloured clothes.

Seems more a case of basic scrubbing up rather than "particular care over her appearance that night".

Nevertheless, we have some facts to work with
Her "beau" appears to have bought her a flower

Unless I`ve missed some new evidence, that can`t be a fact, Phil.

[Phil H]

It would be great to know what Stride's intentions had been for the rest of the night when she arrived at the club

We will never know.

Nevertheless, we have some facts to work with.

It appears that Stride took particular care over her apiearance that night. (Clothes brusih etc). Her "beau" appears to have bought her a flower.

Maybe he (a Jew ? - she seems to have worked for Jewish familes as a cleaner) needed to call at the IWM Club and she waited outside.

I think she hoped he would take her home, but left her options open.

Phil

[caz]

Hi Lynn,

I don't think I'm 'suggesting' anything with this. I leave that to others - then question their suggestions, which seems to make some a bit cross.

It would be great to know what Stride's intentions had been for the rest of the night when she arrived at the club after midnight. But I guess that will be as hard to ascertain as the motive for her murder, if her killer wasn't a knife-happy opportunist predator.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

intentions

Hello Caroline. Thanks.

Concerned, then?

So you are suggesting solicitation on the spur of the moment? I'd like to know what her intentions were for the evening.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

spiffy char woman

Hello Mike. Does one normally wear a flower for charring duties?

Cheers.
LC