The Schwartz/BS Man situation - My opinion only

[drstrange169]

>>I was looking at more of this "evidence" you speak about.
I know published estimates of Stride's age were stated to be 35-40, another opinion said 30. However, interestingly Abraham Heshburg, gave a different opinion..... "I should say she was from 25 to 28 years of age."
I thought you might find this interesting given that James Brown does not say how old he thought the female looked who he saw on the street corner.<<

Actually, on the surface that sounds a reasonable argument.

Not, however when you get to the nitty gritty.

All the above you mention might be described today as a "young woman".

This was a trained journalist decribing a "young girl". A VERY different thing.


>>Isn't "evidence" bizarre?<<

I guess, for people who get easily confused it, might be;-)

[drstrange169]

Hello Jeff,

Re- the cachous, I had a bit of a revelation yesterday.

I fell down the stairs at work, I avoided serious injury by grabbing the rail with my right hand thus breaking the bulk of my fall.
In my left hand I had my work i.d. card, instead of dropping it to grab the other rail, I squeezed it so hard it left marks on my hand.

Everything that happened was instinctive, I didn't consciously do either action.

Looking at the marks on my left hand, I immediately thought of Mrs Stride as I'd been reading this thread. Until now I have never understood the cachous incident, but I'm beginning to see some possibilities now.

[Harry D]

Hi Harry D,



Well, given she had to hold them when being choked, thrown to the ground, and having her throat cut, I'm not so sure them being tucked in a position where they might, as a result, dislodge and end up in her hand is really less sensible or less rational than suggesting she held on to them the entire time. I don't really have a big problem with her doing that, though, but I would hardly call the suggested alternative less sensible - less familiar to you, perhaps, but it is a familiar thing to me (and again, that could be why it seems sensible and rational to me and not you - simple familiarity with people tucking small things in their shirt sleeve).

- Jeff

The attack would not have lasted long, Jeff. The evidence points to a sudden, unexpected attack. Stride's hands clutched the cachous in shock, and would have remained in her hand as muscles contract immediately after death. I find this more plausible than them conveniently rolling out of her sleeve and into her hand.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Jeff,

Re- the cachous, I had a bit of a revelation yesterday.

I fell down the stairs at work, I avoided serious injury by grabbing the rail with my right hand thus breaking the bulk of my fall.
In my left hand I had my work i.d. card, instead of dropping it to grab the other rail, I squeezed it so hard it left marks on my hand.

Everything that happened was instinctive, I didn't consciously do either action.

Looking at the marks on my left hand, I immediately thought of Mrs Stride as I'd been reading this thread. Until now I have never understood the cachous incident, but I'm beginning to see some possibilities now.

Exactly strange.
its no mystery to forensic experts today. Many people are found dead still clutching objects in the hand, even victims of horrific car accidents and violent murders.

To to rule out bs man based on she was found still clutching a small item in her hand is idiotic.

[Sam Flynn]

What slightly puzzles me is what she was doing with the bag of cachous in her hand in the first place, as opposed to their being in one of her pockets. Was she offering to share a sweet with her assailant just at the point he struck? Perhaps we should be looking for an easily triggered diabetic

[John G]

What slightly puzzles me is what she was doing with the bag of cachous in her hand in the first place, as opposed to their being in one of her pockets. Was she offering to share a sweet with her assailant just at the point he struck? Perhaps we should be looking for an easily triggered diabetic

Yes, this is, if course, the main issue. It's easy to see how she could have clenched her hand/fingers as she was caught by surprise by her assailant. The questions , however, are firstly, why did she enter a pitch black passage with him in the first place? And secondly, why was she relaxed enough to be taking a sweet from her pocket prior to the assault?

[Cogidubnus]

Yes, this is, if course, the main issue. It's easy to see how she could have clenched her hand/fingers as she was caught by surprise by her assailant. The questions , however, are firstly, why did she enter a pitch black passage with him in the first place? And secondly, why was she relaxed enough to be taking a sweet from her pocket prior to the assault?

The Schwartz evidence clearly states that he followed an assailant up the road, who approached Liz Stride in the entranceway...regardless of whether BSM or someone else later was the killer, the suggestion is there that she didn't follow him into the passage...she was already partly there and he probably forced her the relatively short rest of the way...

[Jon Guy]

Yes, this is, if course, the main issue. It's easy to see how she could have clenched her hand/fingers as she was caught by surprise by her assailant. The questions , however, are firstly, why did she enter a pitch black passage with him in the first place? And secondly, why was she relaxed enough to be taking a sweet from her pocket prior to the assault?

Hi John

1) She might have been pushed into the passage.
2) She didn`t think that the person who pushed her, would push her.

[Jon Guy]

The Schwartz evidence clearly states that he followed an assailant up the road, who approached Liz Stride in the entranceway...regardless of whether BSM or someone else later was the killer, the suggestion is there that she didn't follow him into the passage...she was already partly there and he probably forced her the relatively short rest of the way...

C`mon Dave, are you using the source material again instead of wild speculation ;-)

[Harry D]

The Schwartz evidence clearly states that he followed an assailant up the road, who approached Liz Stride in the entranceway...regardless of whether BSM or someone else later was the killer, the suggestion is there that she didn't follow him into the passage...she was already partly there and he probably forced her the relatively short rest of the way...

So Stride was pushed/dragged nine feet into Dutfield's Yard and killed, still clutching the cachous?

Nah.

[Abby Normal]

So Stride was pushed/dragged nine feet into Dutfield's Yard and killed, still clutching the cachous?

Nah.

hi Harry
perhaps. or maybe she actually got her throat cut in the street, bs man splits, and she stumbles into the yard to perceived help (the voices coming from the club) only to expire in the yard.

[Harry D]

hi Harry
perhaps. or maybe she actually got her throat cut in the street, bs man splits, and she stumbles into the yard to perceived help (the voices coming from the club) only to expire in the yard.

There was no blood evidence to support that hypothesis, Abby.

[Abby Normal]

There was no blood evidence to support that hypothesis, Abby.

there was blood on her hand. perhaps her hand goes to the throat instinctively, stemming some of the blood.
her scarf was pulled tight-maybe that had something to do with it too.
It was a wet night-blood evidence might have gotten washed away/diluted.

[Jon Guy]

So Stride was pushed/dragged nine feet into Dutfield's Yard and killed, still clutching the cachous?

Nah.

Nine feet ?
Try 4.5ft, one or two strides at the most

[Abby Normal]

Nine feet ?
Try 4.5ft, one or two strides at the most

it was just one Stride. ; )