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Arbeter Fraint's Take

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    torso

    Hello Beowulf. Thanks.

    The other murder was one of the torso murders.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Leave a comment:


  • lynn cates
    replied
    hands

    Hello Christer. Thanks. About time you showed. (Heh-heh)

    The imagery reminds one of the small child with a biscuit in each hand, munching indiscriminately from both.

    Cheers.
    LC

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    AF

    Hello Beowulf. "Der Arbeter Fraint" was a socialist newspaper printed by the Anarchists at the Berner st club. The editor was Phillip Kranz (Jacob Rombro).

    Cheers.
    LC

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  • Debra A
    replied
    Originally posted by mariab View Post
    Debs, can you give us the newspaper quote(s) where Schwartz is mentioned as having witnessed a domestic? I'm interested in this.
    As for why Lynn and I are discussing the fact that Schwartz is missing from the AF report, it's cuz he was mentioned in the Star report, cuz we suspect (as Tom does) that Wess went along to Leman Street to translate for Schwartz (as he did for Leon Goldstein), and cuz we have evidence that Wess was interviewed about the Schwartz incident in The Echo, with the story reprinted verbatim in The Scotsman. It's intriguing that Wess talked about that incident to another newspaper but omitted mentioning this in his OWN newspaper.


    Legally no. But practically, who knows? Does this refer to the 2 suspects allegedly arrested and then left to go by the police and to the fact that there's no evidence that Schwartz was at the inquest? But why is Schwartz' supposed unreliability not mentioned in the Swanson report when Packer's unreliability as a witness IS mentioned by Swanson? Also wondering what Hunter would have to say on this and to what I asked him in my post #54. (Or if anyone else qualified wishes to answer that question in post #54, I'd be grateful.)

    And Debs, do you know anything about that West End/Westminster alleged dismembered woman, or was it just a domestic and the AF exaggerates?

    I'd also like to thank Chris Phillips for giving me the tip about the YIVO in N.Y., from where I've obtained microfilm printouts from AF issues from 1903/1905 when Schwartz the anarchist orator spoke. (So far in my search the AF carefully OMITS mentioning names of anarchist orators. Though I'm not sure if we should compare the AF in 1888 and in 1903, both in its content and in the political climate surrounding it.)

    To Beowulf:
    The Arbeter Fraint {The worker's friend} was a weekly anarchist/socialist newspaper printed in Yiddish, and the organ of the IWEC in 1888, edited by Philip Kranz, alias Jacob Rombro.
    Maria, the accounts of someone seeing a domestic don't give Schwartz' name but I think it is the general consensus that it is Scwartz being refered to? That's what I've always assumed other were saying.

    Right, I understand the Schwartz discussion now, Maria. Is any of that lot a proven fact?

    Regarding the witness thing- I was just wondering, Maria. I haven't thought about it too deeply yet like I said. I've come across it happening in other police records of the period is all andwondered if it was a legal thing.

    Isn't it the Whitehall torso they are refering to? Though not very accurately?

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    Fraff

    Hello Tom. If not Fraff, perhaps the Yaffa chap? He seems to have been working with Krantz/Rombro.

    Cheers.
    LC

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    error

    Hello Maria.

    "Since the IWEC presented the story that the killer was interrupted by Diemshitz around 1.00 a.m., isn't 00.45 a.m. a tiny bit early for them to be claiming that the murder took place? But possibly this could be a reporter's mixup."

    Or possibly an error in their "cover story"?

    Cheers.
    LC

    Leave a comment:


  • lynn cates
    replied
    Scotsman

    Hello Simon. Thanks. Sounds like the story from "The Scotsman."

    If true, it could explain a great deal.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Leave a comment:


  • lynn cates
    replied
    Gilman

    Hello Tom. Thanks.

    Gilman was the first thought I had about Gilyarovsky.

    Cheers.
    LC

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  • lynn cates
    replied
    interruption

    Hello Maria.

    "Why are you so totally against a “mutilatus interruptus“, Lynn?"

    Because it is a deus ex machina.

    IF there was an interruption, it was more likely by a member going out the back door.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Leave a comment:


  • mariab
    replied
    Originally posted by Debra A View Post
    I would genuinely ask why would we expect Schwartz to be mentioned in the club's press account of what happened after Liz's body was found? Schwartz gave a statement of what he saw to police, only the Star took the story up in detail, other newspapers briefly mentioning someone had witnessed a 'domestic.' Why would the AF journalists be any the wiser?
    Debs, can you give us the newspaper quote(s) where Schwartz is mentioned as having witnessed a domestic? I'm interested in this.
    As for why Lynn and I are discussing the fact that Schwartz is missing from the AF report, it's cuz he was mentioned in the Star report, cuz we suspect (as Tom does) that Wess went along to Leman Street to translate for Schwartz (as he did for Leon Goldstein), and cuz we have evidence that Wess was interviewed about the Schwartz incident in The Echo, with the story reprinted verbatim in The Scotsman. It's intriguing that Wess talked about that incident to another newspaper but omitted mentioning this in his OWN newspaper.

    Originally posted by Debra A View Post
    I have a question sort of relating to some thoughts I had on Schwartz but not fully worked through yet -is it true that once a witness has been used to identify a suspect, and he positively ID's someone who is known or later proven to be innocent-that his evidence is classed as no longer reliable and he can't be used as a witness anymore?
    Legally no. But practically, who knows? Does this refer to the 2 suspects allegedly arrested and then left to go by the police and to the fact that there's no evidence that Schwartz was at the inquest? But why is Schwartz' supposed unreliability not mentioned in the Swanson report when Packer's unreliability as a witness IS mentioned by Swanson? Also wondering what Hunter would have to say on this and to what I asked him in my post #54. (Or if anyone else qualified wishes to answer that question in post #54, I'd be grateful.)

    And Debs, do you know anything about that West End/Westminster alleged dismembered woman, or was it just a domestic and the AF exaggerates?

    I'd also like to thank Chris Phillips for giving me the tip about the YIVO in N.Y., from where I've obtained microfilm printouts from AF issues from 1903/1905 when Schwartz the anarchist orator spoke. (So far in my search the AF carefully OMITS mentioning names of anarchist orators. Though I'm not sure if we should compare the AF in 1888 and in 1903, both in its content and in the political climate surrounding it.)

    To Beowulf:
    The Arbeter Fraint {The worker's friend} was a weekly anarchist/socialist newspaper printed in Yiddish, and the organ of the IWEC in 1888, edited by Philip Kranz, alias Jacob Rombro.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fisherman
    replied
    It is interesting to note that what Stride held in her hand is described as candies. That adds confirmation to the suspicion that the tablets were not strong cachous, as has been suggested by many a poster. It has been stated that they were probably tools of the trade for a prostitute, but the Arbeter Fraint instead describes them like candy, and thus potentially a gift, just like the rather elaborate flower Stride wore.

    The best,
    Fisherman
    Last edited by Fisherman; 03-20-2012, 12:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris
    replied
    Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
    Hello All. I think a HUGE thanks goes to Chris Phillips, for without his hard work, there would be no AF to translate.
    Thanks. I'm pleased to have been of some help in bringing such an interesting article to light, but all I did was locate online a copiable holding of AF and order copies - a tiny contribution in comparison with Lynn's efforts in getting the text translated. I should also mention that Rob House kindly assisted in arranging the payment for the copies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra A
    replied
    Thanks very much for going to all the trouble of having this translated and posted, Lynn.

    Re-the grapes. I'm with Maria and Tom on this. The club-men were the original source of the grape story in all the press reports. I would find it odder if there was no mention of the grapes in the clubs own account.

    Likewise with the Schwartz story. I may be being pretty naive here, and as I don't subscribe to any of the theories that Schwartz was anything other than a witness at the moment (so I'm not with Tom or maria or anyone else on this one ); I would genuinely ask why would we expect Schwartz to be mentioned in the club's press account of what happened after Liz's body was found? Schwartz gave a statement of what he saw to police, only the Star took the story up in detail, other newspapers briefly mentioning someone had witnessed a 'domestic.'
    Why would the AF journalists be any the wiser?

    I have a question sort of relating to some thoughts I had on Schwartz but not fully worked through yet-is it true that once a witness has been used to identify a suspect, and he positively ID's someone who is known or later proven to be innocent-that his evidence is classed as no longer reliable and he can't be used as a witness anymore?

    Leave a comment:


  • Beowulf
    replied
    "Yet that is not all. Tuesday at about 5 in the evening another dismembered woman was found not in East End but in West End near Westminster. The body was found among wood that must have been lying there for some time since it had already begun to rot. More parts were missing from this body [than from the other]. To this point there has been no trace of the murderer."

    What murder was this?

    This was fascinating Lynn. Thank you. Felt like 'being' there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fisherman
    replied
    On the grapes and cachous suggestion, why not try it yourself? Take a small bunch of grapes in your left hand and a number of paper-wrapped cachous in your right.

    Now, try to eat them ...

    The oblong, dark objects on Stride´s hand were not grapes - they were clots of blood, NOT transferred there by Edward Johnston.

    The best,
    Fisherman

    Leave a comment:

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