A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[corey123]

Yesterday I found myself in the role of a modern day Schwartz trying to interpret what I saw take place between a man and a woman. I was walking down the street and in the distance I saw a man and a woman a little bit apart. They both appeared to be about 20 years of age. Suddenly the woman ran up to the man and flung her arms around his neck and started kissing him. I assumed that I was just seeing a public display of affection between a couple. The man tried to push her away. She said "you don't really mean it." He said "yes, I do mean it." Then he kept saying "let go of me" and tried to free himself. She kept clinging to him. Finally he said "there is a cop over there. If you don't let me go, I am going to call him." She reluctantly let go. He gave her one last little push and walked away. She looked after him for a few seconds and then just crumpled to the ground and started crying hysterically. I felt very badly for her.

I guess the moral of the story is that things aren't always what they first appear to be. I can't imagine how Schwartz would have described this scenario not understanding a word of it..

Also in the observation department, I saw a woman standing in front of an apartment building. She was angrily throwing things into the trunk of her car. When she was done, she slammed the trunk, looked up at the apartment building, threw back her arm as high and as far as she could go, thrust it forward, extended her middle finger and yelled "so long, mother *******. Don't know what that was all about. Maybe an eviction or bad roomates.

And finally, this Monday morning on the subway looking at the faces, it was clear that Thoreau hit the nail on the head when he said "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."

So there you have it. Human behavior in all its glory.

c.d.

Hello c.d,

This is great. I couldn't find a more perfect example. To make matters worse, Schwartz didn't even watch the duration of this. He just kept walking.

[Tom_Wescott]

Did Schwartz say how he came by his time estimate? Did he say he had a watch?

I'm sure he did say, but that information is lost to us. I believe it was reported as 'about 12:45am', which to me says he was estimating.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

The Star of Oct. 1, 1888 described Israel Schwartz as “well dressed“, C.D. No idea if that might have implied a pocket watch or whatnot. As you know, Schwartz wasn't asked at the inquiry. I have Sugden here in my suitcase, but I haven't even opened the book yet. I have it in my mind to look this up, when possible. Now I have to report to my boss in Chicago about the lost Finale from a Rossini opera I located today (in pieces and parts), which will take the rest of my miserable life to sort out and put together.

[mariab]

Wow. C.D., after starting this thread and 376 posts, are you aware that we came full circle?! I totally get it when Stephen Thomas (on another thread) referred to “that goldfish moment“...

[c.d.]

Hi Maria,

Yes, I noticed that myself. My first post makes it clear that it is hard to accurately describe what you see even when you hear what transpired in your native tongue. After 376 posts it seems that people are now coming to the same conclusion.

P.S. I still would like to know why that woman (in post no.1) gave the finger to an apartment building.

c.d.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi All,
Schwartz was reported as having a "theatrical appearance"!Quite what that meant then is difficult to say,though Tumblety was known to parade in some very queer outfits---so maybe Schwartz wore a velvet fedora and a cloak!

[c.d.]

"Queer" outfits? Are you suggesting that...uh....oh, never mind.

c.d.

[mariab]

flip-off and Schwartz the thespian

C.D., about giving the finger, I almost did that too (out of relief) when moving out of an apartment with very frustrating conditions about a decade ago in Berlin, so I think that it happens often.
Checking out The Star of Oct. 1, 1888, it doesn't state “theatrical appearance“ for Schwartz, but “theatrical involvement“. Lynn Cates is researching the local theaters for mention of Schwartz.

[mariab]

C.D. wrote:
“Queer" outfits? Are you suggesting that...uh....oh, never mind.
Friday evening I gotta go to a surf club's themed party for “hunting and fishing“.
I'll either go as Lara Croft with 2 water pistols, or, if too cold in shorts, with a fishing rod and some plastic ducks attached. I'll have to board the métro with the fishing rod or water pistols.

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"I believe it was reported as 'about 12:45am', which to me says he was estimating."

A fair assumption, Tom - but we do know that the same estimation of time was reached by the one/s who saw the race down Fairclough Street. And when we have two corresponding times, we have something that very much resembles corroboration.

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Fisherman wrote:
And when we have two corresponding times, we have something that very much resembles corroboration.
I completely agree with you on this, Fisherman, and thank you SO much for mentioning The Scotsman's report (much) earlier in this thread, otherwise I as a newbie would have not gotten wind of this very important detail any time soon.
Here once again The Echo report of october 1st:
A MAN PURSUED. - SAID TO BE THE MURDERER.
In the course of conversation (says the journalist) the secretary mentioned the fact that the murderer had no doubt been disturbed in his work, as about a quarter to one o'clock on Sunday morning he was seen- or, at least, a man whom the public prefer to regard as the murderer- being chased by another man along Fairclough-street, which runs across Berner-street close to the Club, and which is intersected on the right by Providence-street, Brunswick-street, and Christian-st., and on the left by Batty-street and Grove-street, the [two latter?] [?] up into Commercial-road. The man pursued escaped, however, and the secretary of the Club cannot remember the name of the man who gave chase, but he is not a member of their body.

[lynn cates]

murderer

Hello Maria. Thanks for posting this.

I leave it to all and sundry to suggest why:

1. If it's the murderer being chased, it's likely NOT a corroboration of IS's story.

2. This sounds suspicious. ("Yes, the murderer was chased, but the man lost him." "Who was the man?" "Umm, er, I forgot his name." "Club member?" Gulp. "Definitely not.")

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Maria,

The second part of the 1st October Echo story is far more interesting.

"Complaint is also made [?] [?] [?] there was experienced in obtaining a policeman, and it is alleged that from the time the body was discovered fifteen minutes had elapsed before a constable could be [?] from Commercial-road. This charge against the police, however, requires confirmation."

If true, it puts the time of the discovery of Stride's body at around 12.45 am, the same time as the Schwartz incident and the chase along Fairclough Street.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Simon. Precisely. Yet another story that corroborates the earlier time.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

Quite possibly the four unreadable [?] words in the 1st October Echo story are [of] [the] [delay] and [summoned].

If at 12.45 am there did follow a fifteen-minute delay in finding a policeman [in the circumstances not a glowing PR feather in the Met's cap] it would explain the time of discovery of Stride's body being pushed back to 1.00 am and the consequent legend of mutilatum interruptus.

Regards,

Simon