A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fish, thanks for the kind words on my Le Grand article. I agree that it's a fantastic read, no doubt the best essay ever written. However, if you don't see Le Grand as a viable Ripper, you must not have read very deep, or maybe you're just not at my level of genius yet (who is, except Scott Nelson, right?). However, I have a couple of cool (and shorter) articles coming up in CE that look at more obscure (and one new) suspects, which might be of more interest to you.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"if you don't see Le Grand as a viable Ripper, you must not have read very deep"

Oh, I did not say that he is not viable, Tom. That he is, no doubt about it. What I said was that he never seems to harm people physically just for the joy of it. It is always a means to gain, one way or another. Money sometimes, revenge or fear others.
That does not make him unviable. It only makes him a fellow I would not place at the top of my personal list. I´ve been known to be wrong, though, from time to time, so I wouldn´t give up on le Grand as yet if I were you!

"no doubt the best essay ever written"

Ah, modesty, Tom - it becomes you!

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

Oh, I did not say that he is not viable, Tom. That he is, no doubt about it. What I said was that he never seems to harm people physically just for the joy of it.

But that is not true...he violently beat women in the street for joy and revenge, even serving time for it. He was prepared to explode old women for no financial gain, and then there's the stuff that Jabez Balfour had to say about him. Very evil.

But then, pimpin' ain't easy.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"he violently beat women in the street for joy and revenge"

Pimps who beat women - their own "staff" mainly - mainly does that for purposes of control. That too is applying physical violence for gain. They may well take joy in doing it, but the joy itself is just a "fringe benefit", and never the ultimate goal. My hunch is that Jack was of a different breed altogether.

But you are the one who has delved deepest into le Grands character, and it will be interesting to see what your upcoming book has to add!

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Fisherman,
I totally am with you on both the “psychology“ of pimps and in your hunch that the Ripper was of a different breed altogether than Le Grand.
(Still, I'm open to all possibilities if there's evidence to sustain them.)

[Fleetwood Mac]

Yeah I would agree that beating women....is entirely different to disembowelling them and cutting them up. It would take a different type of character.

And then there's motive......why would Le Grand break his toys?....excuse the term.....but he'd be cutting his own nose off to spite his face....a pimp beating one of his women is a control tool to keep them earning money for him........unlike slaughtering....

[mariab]

Fleetwood Mac,
They were not HIS toys. As any experienced pimp, Le Grand avoided severely damaging the prostitutes working for him.
Gotta run to work (at the Bibliothèque de l'Opéra), I'm SO late. I'll be back later tonight.

[mariab]

It just dawned on me that my Chicago boss is pimping me – but I'm currently doing some things so as to alter the rules of the game. Although there's no equivalent in the pimping line of work for what I'm doing right now – hiding the goods until getting recognition. This wouldn't work with prostitutes, as they would just get another beating instead. Faulty metaphore?

[c.d.]

I was just rereading some of the earlier posts. Robert made an excellent point when he asked why Schwartz would have been briefed to use the term Lipski. As he pointed out, the obvious answer would be that it was a common term used against Jews and would have been appropriate in the situation. So it does not seem surprising at all that that is what Schwartz actually heard.

c.d.

[Roy Corduroy]

Good afternoon c.d.,

Jews called each other Lipski in that neighborhood then.

Roy

[mariab]

Lipski

Roy Cordyroy wrote:
Jews called each other Lipski in that neighborhood then.
Absolutely. As Lynn Cates said in another thread, it's kinda like “nig*er“ today, or rather, like “nig*er“ in the 1990s. (And Lynn just said “the n word“, not the full word. Chicken much, Lynn?)
I'm afraid “Lispki“ is too generic to give us a hint, C.D.. Apparently it was used a lot in the streets of Whitechapel, but, loaded with racist significance, it might very well have been incorporated into Schwartz's false testimony or into his exaggeration of a true testimony, like the appearing and disappearing knife in Pipeman's hand.
There are even people who believe that “Lipski“ was actually BS calling out “Lizzie“, and there's even a thread devoted to that possibility!

[lynn cates]

possibilities

Hello Maria. I'm delighted that you have exhibited the branching logic associated with Schwartz. His story could be true, largely true, or false. The articulation could be a racial slur by a Jew, a racial slur by a Gentile, or a call to Lizzie.

Clearly, each of these possibilities have better and worse story lines associated with them. The best one can do is pick one and see where it goes--understanding that those who differ are not necessarily irrational.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Hello Lynn,
branching it totally is indeed. I think the Jewish/German term would be “verzwickt“!
I think the best one can do is take ALL the possibilities and see where they go, plus try to research the related witnesses/suspects accordingly.
I gotta take my contact lenses off – my eyes are killing me. Long day today, several hours going through microfilms of chorus vocal parts for Rossini at the Opéra, followed by shopping and watching Salt, then sharing drinks and a huge grilled fish with a friend. And I still have to email my German boss about different matters. Grump, grump. It never ends. (Not until I die...)

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Maria.

"I think the best one can do is take ALL the possibilities and see where they go, plus try to research the related witnesses/suspects accordingly."

Wise words indeed!

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Wise words, and the wisest of all is, I'm going to bed. The report to my German boss will have to wait until tomorrow...