Did jack kill liz stride?

[Hunter]

Very well. But the doctors/coroner were convinced that the cachous were spilled by the doctors. And all were speculating about the presence of cachous between fingers.

And that's actually the relevant part; the packet of cachous was still in Stride's hand... after she was murdered.

[Hunter]

That she was facing east and possibly LEAVING the yard. When I first noticed this a few years ago, I was dumbfounded. "This is all wrong" I thought. "She should be pointed opposite."

Hi Lynn,

I think we generally agree with our interpretation of what forensics we have, but I'm not sure if its a given that Stride was leaving the yard. She could have merely turned her back to her killer for some reason and he saw the opportunity in the process.

Just considering all of the possibilities.

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn,

I think we generally agree with our interpretation of what forensics we have, but I'm not sure if its a given that Stride was leaving the yard. She could have merely turned her back to her killer for some reason and he saw the opportunity in the process.

Just considering all of the possibilities.

Given her proximity to the house wall, and the body posture, it appears to me she faced the wall and was then attacked, she falls or is laid down on her left side.
The fact she appeared to have been casually laid down may be accounted for if the killer did indeed use her scarf to choke her, pulling it tight from behind. The killer would hold it tight until her legs give way and she slumps to the ground - only then is he sure she is unconscious. The overall impression is then that she was laid down carefully?
This might suggest the killer was behind her.

Just one of the possibilities.

[lynn cates]

facing east

Hello Cris. Thanks. Absolutely. She may have just been facing east for whatever reason.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

turn, turn, turn

Hello Jon. Then we are fairly well agreed. In the reenactment I have her turning her body slightly towards the wall.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

The fact that Stride was not lying in the middle of the passage (albeit a narrow one) but near the wall where the gutter was could be an indicator that she may have been stationary when she was attacked. I would think that anyone walking through such a passage would stay in the middle and avoid the gutter.

If she moved from the middle toward the wall during the attack, I would think her feet would end up farther from the wall than her head.

[Michael W Richards]

A plausible scenario for Liz Strides last few seconds is that she had her back to the wall with someone if front of her...likely poking her in the shoulder,... a physical similarity with the young couple Brown saw, if you will. Liz becomes intimidated, scared, or cocky, pushes herself past the man on his right side,... she still near the wall, she steps towards the gates, he grabs her scarf, pulls back on it and twists it. She is off balance, tilted to the wall from the waist up, bent backwards. He already has a knife in his right hand, her scarf in his left.....(left handed man or ambi?),...he reaches across her throat from behind her still, maintaining the pull and twist on the scarf, presses the tip inward and applies pressure to the farthest point he can access, as she finally loses her balance battle and falls....now cut across the throat, with her feet towards the gate and her head nearly touching the wall, on her left. Her feet curl into her body, fetal position.

The reason she had the cashous out is because she anticipated talking to someone closely in a very short time....perhaps as soon as the person left the club via the side door. The man accosted her while she stood near the gates and the wall, she had no reason to put the cashous away at that point. The spontaneous decision to move away from him and the speed at which this murder could have taken place...literally 2 seconds, are the reason she dies clutching them.

Question: If Liz Stride had been as claimed, "working among the Jews for some weeks" leading up to that last night, would she be likely to go out soliciting at a club populated by Jewish men of the same area? Would she risk being seen prostituting herself by a legitimate client or a friend of one? This woman did have a history of legitimate work in London, ran a coffee house, charwoman, ...is it probable that if she found she had the need to sell herself that she would try and seek out customers who werent likely to also be legitimate clients, endangering that employment?

Cheers

[The Good Michael]

...is it probable that if she found she had the need to sell herself that she would try and seek out customers who werent likely to also be legitimate clients, endangering that employment?

So broad shouldered man wasn't Jewish? I don't believe anyone said he was.

Mike

[Michael W Richards]

So broad shouldered man wasn't Jewish? I don't believe anyone said he was.

Mike

I believe by the statement given that its likely he was a gentile Mike, "Lipski" was probably intended as an insult. The alleged altercation does take place right outside the Jewish Mens Club, so my point is still the same...regardless of the ethnicity of the BSM.

That being said, I also believe that the BSM story was concocted and designed to place an altercation off site with a gentile...thereby eliminating the many Jewish men still in attendance as potential suspects. Because the timing of the altercation leaves little doubt that Liz Strides killer would have been the rough gentile. An anti semite as well...so fortunate a tale.

Cheers

[Tom_Wescott]

Cachous

Hi all,

There were 6 or 7 pieces of cachous wrapped in a thin tissue paper. There was no box. It's most likely that Edward Johnston and not Blackwell spilled them. Johnston could not be seen to have moved the body, which he did, so Blackwell took the heat for the cachous at the inquest. Dr. Phillips appears to have had an idea of what happened but clearly hadn't been told.

The door of the club was a pretty good distance from where Liz's feet were, so I'm not sure how or why Lynn finagled that into his scenario.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

unless

Hello Cris. Thanks.

"I would think that anyone walking through such a passage would stay in the middle and avoid the gutter."

Unless she were walking with someone?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

maybe not

Hello Mike.

"A plausible scenario for Liz Stride's last few seconds is that she had her back to the wall with someone if front of her...likely poking her in the shoulder."

Umm, don't think this will work. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

door

Hello Tom.

"The door of the club was a pretty good distance from where Liz's feet were, so I'm not sure how or why Lynn finagled that into his scenario."

Yes, 18 feet minus 4' 7"--and an inch or two.

It is not necessary that Liz go to the door; however, it seems a plausible reason for her to go into the yard and out again.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Hello Mike.

"A plausible scenario for Liz Stride's last few seconds is that she had her back to the wall with someone if front of her...likely poking her in the shoulder."

Umm, don't think this will work. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

Cheers.
LC

The marks on the shoulder were pressure marks not poke marks. As for the chest bruise, that could have been many things. Possibly even the gutter stones before the killer positioned her further back from the wall. Or maybe the butt of his knife pressed into her chest, or a knuckle.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Hello Tom.

"The door of the club was a pretty good distance from where Liz's feet were, so I'm not sure how or why Lynn finagled that into his scenario."

Yes, 18 feet minus 4' 7"--and an inch or two.

It is not necessary that Liz go to the door; however, it seems a plausible reason for her to go into the yard and out again.

Cheers.
LC

Remember what I said about the water closets. There were two on the opposite side of the passage from the kitchen door and this would have been the closet accessible water closet to Stride if she were standing by the board school. Stride was no stranger to this general area, so I imagine she was aware of it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott