Did jack kill liz stride?

[Tom_Wescott]

You may have served in the police force for some years, but I venture to say from what I've read here, that Tom is a better detective than you are.

Few posters have been as supportive of my ideas as you, Dylan, and for that I'm always more than grateful. However, now that Perry Mason is gone from us, I'd like to help make the Stride threads less about the posters and more about what they have to say, which is why I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to steer Trevor away from a pissing contest. But I know that whenever a meanie shows up to throw arrows, I can always count on you to be there tossing 'em right back!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. Don Souden, as usual, is right on the money.

[Tom_Wescott]

Just one quick point. Trevor stated that if JTR killed Liz he would have taken her to the rear of the yard where it was darker...

You are absolutely right, Hunter. The darkest part of the yard was precisely where Stride was killed. The Ripper, as we see in Hanbury Street, liked to position himself next to the exit in case something should go wrong. There was very little worry for him in Berner Street. He would be aware of anyone coming from any direction before they'd be aware of him.

It's always amusing to me when non-Canonicals say that the club was too noisy for Jack to have chosen as a murder spot, yet they don't open their minds to the possibility that for the same reason, he chose to dispatch Stride quickly but not stick around to mutilate her.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

How do you know that Kidney was never asked about his whereabouts? Do you not see the non sequitur here? You provide facts which make Kidney the prime suspect but then opine that the police missed these oh so obvious facts..

In the absence of any evidence to suggest who actually killed her. Kidney has to be considered having regard to his torrid relationship with Stride. I agree this fact an other i have mentioned are obvious and could have been overlooked in the light of the Eddowes murder.
I have no doubt that the police would have asked Kidney as they woud have no doubt taken a statement from him to be used in the inquest proceedings. Sadly we do not have that statement. Nor do we have anyhting from the inquest as he was never asked about his whereabouts there at the time of the murder.

Again, you misinterpreted what I said. The police did not know that Kidney wasn't the Ripper. How could they? They didn't know who the Ripper was. And neither do we. Kidney might have been the Ripper. We simply don't know. I simply stated that he seems an unlikely candidate.

c.d.

But if Kidney was the Ripper then he would have killed Stride would he not ? According to your belief that Stride was killed by the Ripper. Is that not contradicting yourself.

Dr Phillips suggested the knife used to cut her throat could have been " A short knife, such as a shoemaker's well-ground knife,"

I also mentioned Kidneys viability for being a suspect and that reasoning has been questioned. Take a look at Sadlers viability for being a suspect for Coles murder. Almost identical to Strides. yet he still figures on the list of Ripper suspects. You cant keep changing the goalposts as an when it suits.

In my opinion by todays standards the police in 1888 were blinkered in many ways throughout these murders, but as i have also said they were not negligent just ill equipped and untrained in the investigation of serial killings

[Trevor Marriott]

FAO Dylan

Trevor.

From where I stand, I think the facts and evidence suggest just the opposite.

Well bring it all on lets all have a look at your facts then


You may have served in the police force for some years, but I venture to say from what I've read here, that Tom is a better detective than you are.

What a childish immature statement. You have no knowledge about my police service nor are you in a position to question my career as a detective.

There are some on here who like to think they are detectives in reality they couldnt catch a cold

DYLAN

[Trevor Marriott]

You are absolutely right, Hunter. The darkest part of the yard was precisely where Stride was killed. The Ripper, as we see in Hanbury Street, liked to position himself next to the exit in case something should go wrong. There was very little worry for him in Berner Street. He would be aware of anyone coming from any direction before they'd be aware of him.

It's always amusing to me when non-Canonicals say that the club was too noisy for Jack to have chosen as a murder spot, yet they don't open their minds to the possibility that for the same reason, he chose to dispatch Stride quickly but not stick around to mutilate her.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom
I urge you to stop reading Hans Chritsian Anderson it is reflecting in your posts

[robhouse]

There are a couple of things that make Sadler a much more viable suspect in Coles' murder than Kidney would be for Stride's.

1. Sadler and Coles were hanging around together on the night of her death.
2. Sadler lied in his testimony about his whereabouts on the night in question, as far as I can tell.
3. Sadler was spotted only a few hundred feet from the Coles' murder site within, if my memory serves me, about 15 minutes of her murder.
4. Sadler had at least some motive, specifically the fight he had got into with Coles earlier that night... and he was pretty drunk.

Whereas Kidney was not seen with Stride the night of her death, nor is there any evidence he was anywhere near Berner Street at the time.

NOTE: I am going from memory here...

Rob H

[Trevor Marriott]

There are a couple of things that make Sadler a much more viable suspect in Coles' murder than Kidney would be for Stride's.

1. Sadler and Coles were hanging around together on the night of her death.
2. Sadler lied in his testimony about his whereabouts on the night in question, as far as I can tell.
3. Sadler was spotted only a few hundred feet from the Coles' murder site within, if my memory serves me, about 15 minutes of her murder.
4. Sadler had at least some motive, specifically the fight he had got into with Coles earlier that night... and he was pretty drunk.

Whereas Kidney was not seen with Stride the night of her death, nor is there any evidence he was anywhere near Berner Street at the time.

NOTE: I am going from memory here...

Rob H

Your memory isnt that good then

[harry]

As Schwartz hurried away,he heard raised voices.He did not see after Stride fell,any continuance of attack,and there is nothing in the doctors reports to suggest extreme violence had taken place at the gateway.What Schwartz saw,and what he may have interpreted from that sighting,is open to question.It may be that Stride was the person who instigated the incident,that she was rebuffed by a completely innocent stranger who resented her approach.That he pushed or pulled from an unwelcome attempt at contact,and she fell.
One more thing.Mere suspicion is not a basis for arrest.

[caz]

The darkest part of the yard was precisely where Stride was killed. The Ripper, as we see in Hanbury Street, liked to position himself next to the exit in case something should go wrong. There was very little worry for him in Berner Street. He would be aware of anyone coming from any direction before they'd be aware of him.

It's always amusing to me when non-Canonicals say that the club was too noisy for Jack to have chosen as a murder spot, yet they don't open their minds to the possibility that for the same reason, he chose to dispatch Stride quickly but not stick around to mutilate her.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Joy to my ears, Tom, and yet really this is only common sense.

If Liz took herself off to the back of the yard to dust herself off, collect her thoughts or even have a pee (yes, Trevor, we ladies do need one occasionally and we do like a bit of privacy for it. Why in God's name would Liz have crouched over the cobbles if there was a privy handy??), she would have been walking into pitch blackness as she made her way back to the entrance, imagining herself to be alone again (assuming BS man existed and she thought she had sent the nuisance packing).

If she was also reaching for her cachous at this point, she simply would not have seen her killer or had the ghost of a chance, if he was positioned against the wall in the darkest part of the passage, waiting for her to walk past him and hell-bent on teaching her a lesson. The evidence fits with her not knowing a thing about it. A bit hard to reconcile with a stroppy man being there all the time with her knowledge.

Love,

Caz
X

[Trevor Marriott]

Joy to my ears, Tom, and yet really this is only common sense.

If Liz took herself off to the back of the yard to dust herself off, collect her thoughts or even have a pee (yes, Trevor, we ladies do need one occasionally and we do like a bit of privacy for it. Why in God's name would Liz have crouched over the cobbles if there was a privy handy??), she would have been walking into pitch blackness as she made her way back to the entrance, imagining herself to be alone again (assuming BS man existed and she thought she had sent the nuisance packing).

If she was also reaching for her cachous at this point, she simply would not have seen her killer or had the ghost of a chance, if he was positioned against the wall in the darkest part of the passage, waiting for her to walk past him and hell-bent on teaching her a lesson. The evidence fits with her not knowing a thing about it. A bit hard to reconcile with a stroppy man being there all the time with her knowledge.

Love,

Caz
X

Caz
i had you down as a person with common sense but it seems you have defected to the la la land brigade

I would suggest the darkest part of the yard was much further down where all the stables were located. Corrcet me if i am wrong and i am sure someone will but was there not a cobbled driveway between the two buildings leading from the street down to the yard itself and was this not where eStride was found.

You may know about womens habits but you dont know about the habits of low class street prostitutes and i do

[harry]

I agree with Trevor.Darkness,for the purpose of urinating was a few steps inside the gate,why go further?Why go inside at all?

[DVV]

Your memory isnt that good then

Reading Rob's post I was just thinking : "Has Trevor seen this ?"

Amitiés,
David

[Trevor Marriott]

Reading Rob's post I was just thinking : "Has Trevor seen this ?"

Amitiés,
David

seen it,read it, disregarded the content as being factually incorrect

[DVV]

seen it,read it, disregarded the content as being factually incorrect

Just what I expected, my dear.

[Observer]

Hi

For what it's worth, I was contemplating the fact that BS man (in his rough treatment of Liz Stride) displayed similar traits to Leatherapron. As speculated in an earlier thread, I believe the real Leatherapron remained undetected, he was not John Pizer. Thing is an assault is an assault is an assault, I realise that the link is extremly tenuous

Observer