Did jack kill liz stride?

[Wickerman]

In fighting form today Tom (posts #1532/3/4), but you're right on all points.

[lynn cates]

After you, sir.

Hello Michael. Thanks.

You cut me to the quick. (heh-heh) Still, I think you should answer. Might be interesting.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

concoction

Hello Caroline. Thanks.

"And is there any reason to believe that the ripper - uniquely it seems - could not have killed Stride as a result of 'a mere outburst of anger'?"

Sure--in the exact same way that ANYONE could kill in a burst of anger. And it would help if such a chap as the ripper existed.

Now, concoct a scenario which is, in order of importance:

1. non-contradictory

2. plausible

and

3. dovetails events

and I shall be delighted--oh, positively delighted--to follow.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Third time's a charm.

Hello Michael.

"It's time he answered these questions he always asks . . ."

I answered half of them with my reenactment. At least that respects forensic evidence.

To date, I have see TWO theories besides that do that.

1. Tom having Liz assaulted then marched into the yard, stood against the building and told to empty her pockets.

2. Christer having an assaulted Liz hale BSM into the yard where they have a heated argument culminating in Liz getting calm, taking out a cachou and THEN being killed.

Care to go for #3? I am ALL attention.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

I could have danced all night.

Hello MB.

". . .less than fifty minuets later . . ."

And perhaps a gigue or two? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

If Stride's killer killed in a burst of anger, it would seem that he went from zero right to sixty. No one at the club heard any argument and Liz showed no sign of being slapped about.

c.d.

[Cogidubnus]

Blitz

Hi cd

And does this not tie in with Schwartz's testimony?

All the best

Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

Hello Tom , I can probably be convinced that Stride may have been strangled or garroted ( regardless of evidence ) and I can probably be convinced that the knife used was long and sharp ( regardless of evidence either way ) I can also be convinced that Stride was working that night .. but here is my stumbling block Tom ..

At the height of a murderous killing spree taking place on these very streets , we know the Ripper was more than capable of putting these unfortunate women at ease in his company , allowing them to lead him to .. Dark desolate back streets , Dark and desolate back yards , Darkest corner of a deserted square , Even inviting him home ! He definitely had the gift of the gab , familiarity, elevated status , whatever it was , it worked .. and in all probability he was given a time limit by the poor victim in which to commit his deadly deed .

Now turning back to Stride , and (according to a witness) she was not swooned or seduced into becoming an amicable victim , in fact quite the opposite ! She clearly wanted nothing to do with her would be assailant .. and in a spot where she would have felt a lot safer than the other victims would have ..



So was the Rippers charm offensive faulty on this particular night ? obviously not , because less than fifty minuets later he was charming the life out of poor Kate ! For me , his ability to put his victims at ease in his company was just as big a part of his MO as all the rest of it , and quite possibly a bridge too far for me as far as stride being C5 .

cheers

moonbegger

Hi Pink. So you're saying the stumbling block for you is James Brown's evidence of hearing Stride say 'Not tonight, some other night?' This is often assumed to be Stride turning down a punter, but that of course assumes he was a punter to begin with. It also assumes she was turning him down for sex and not something else, such as an overnight stay or a date to the theater. In short, we don't know what they were discussing. We also, of course, do not at all know this man was her killer. But within moments of that conversation she was killed in a dark passageway. We do know that.

The water closets in Dutfield's Yard (which was almost always unlocked, by the way) were the nearest such facilities to Stride, so it's possible she used them and then came out to find guess-who waiting. There many possiblities, each as good or bad as the next. The passageway was perfectly dark and it would be literally impossible for someone in the club to have caught him unawares...unlike Hanbury Street or Mary Kelly's place. I can explain this further if you'd like. A slightly open window and people singing would probably have put him more at ease than a dead silent street. After all, none of these people...not a one...heard the cry of 'Lipski!' did they? And i think that would perk a Jew's ears up, even a non-comformist like our club friends.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Hello MB.

"Unless his only objective here was to kill her!"

Is there any overarching reason why it could not have been? Likewise, is there a reason to believe that it could not have been a mere outburst of anger?

Cheers.
LC

Other than there's no obvious signs of anger? No. But there was no yelling, no fighting, no signs of struggle, no marks of fisticuffs, no hesitation marks in the knife wound (which appear in the vast majority of throat-slittings). An absolutely passionless killing.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Hi cd

And does this not tie in with Schwartz's testimony?

All the best

Dave

Hello Dave,

I don't think the BS man was Liz's killer. I was referring to someone else being her killer after BS man left the scene. Lack of an argument and Liz not being slapped about tend to rule out a domestic for me.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

In fighting form today Tom (posts #1532/3/4), but you're right on all points.

Thanks for that. And in case it wasn't apparent in my reply to Moonpie, the 'hack' I was bashing him for quoting was myself.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Cogidubnus]

Hi cd

Who mentioned a domestic?

Cheers

Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi cd

Who mentioned a domestic?

Cheers

Dave

Everyone who always puts up Kidney as the Ripper substitute. Remember, the only reason this whole 'Stride's not a Ripper victim' nonsense got started was because AP Wolf, back in 1995, completely misinterpreted the evidence surrounding Michael Kidney. It has snowballed since.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

"An absolutely passionless killing" -- excellent description.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hi cd

Who mentioned a domestic?

Cheers

Dave

Lynn was implying anger as a motive. That is what I was referring to when I used the term domestic but actually domestic might not be the correct word.

c.d.