Did jack kill liz stride?

[Cogidubnus]

Well I didn't mention a domestic...and I'm quite prepared to accept that

Stride's killer killed in a burst of anger, it would seem that he went from zero right to sixty. No one at the club heard any argument and Liz showed no sign of being slapped about.

which was my original quote...

For what it's worth I believe the killer cultivated the victims quite smoothly until (when the moment was opportune) almost exploding into action...

Let's be straight here...Stride was quite possibly leaving Kidney (again - she'd done it so many times before) but no way did Kidney kill Stride

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

There is no way Kidney would show up in court after having been seen assaulting Stride in the gateway.

Any culpability attributed to Kidney is directly tied to the story provided by Schwartz, yet it is this very circumstance that in fact makes Kidney a most implausible suspect.

[Hunter]

That's exactly right, Jon. The police had a witness if Kidney was BS man. Whoever killed Stride, slipped through the most thorough investigation in this series of murders to date. Edmund Reid was as good as the Met could offer. Even the usually irascible Baxter complimented Reid and his team for their effort. Much different than the Nichols and Chapman inquests.

[Tom_Wescott]

There is no way Kidney would show up in court after having been seen assaulting Stride in the gateway.

Any culpability attributed to Kidney is directly tied to the story provided by Schwartz, yet it is this very circumstance that in fact makes Kidney a most implausible suspect.

Correct, and for a dozen other reasons, Kidney was neither BS Man nor Stride's killer. AP Wolf mistakenly thought Kidney went to the police station yelling about Stride's murder BEFORE she'd been found dead, but even after this mistake was pointed out to him, he neither changed the text of his book (which is still influencing newbies courtesy of its appearance on this site), nor recant his accusation against Kidney. This is how the modern idea of Stride as non-Ripper victim got started. It's also a myth that Kidney locked Stride in their rooms, and this little nugget of course convinced many writers that Kidney was meaner or more abusive than he probably actually was.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael.

"It's time he answered these questions he always asks . . ."

I answered half of them with my reenactment. At least that respects forensic evidence.

To date, I have see TWO theories besides that do that.

1. Tom having Liz assaulted then marched into the yard, stood against the building and told to empty her pockets.

2. Christer having an assaulted Liz hale BSM into the yard where they have a heated argument culminating in Liz getting calm, taking out a cachou and THEN being killed.

Care to go for #3? I am ALL attention.

Cheers.
LC

You go for 3 and 4 and I'll consider the effort. If it seems like you really tried, I'll throw out a fifth.
Mike

[curious]

Throat Wounds

Hi, everyone,
For most of my time here, I have considered Stride as a questionable Ripper victim.

However, after looking at the actual throat wounds of the women of the "double event" I believe the two were killed by the same hand -- and therefore most likely by "Jack."

Remember Stride's description is by Dr. George Bagster Phillips, who used the angle of the jaw as a point of reference, and Eddowes by Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown, who used the ear lobe.

for instance:
1. LENGTH -- Stride: six inches in length; Eddowes: cut across to the extent of about six or seven inches.

2. Both DOWNWARD -- Stride:The cut was very clean and deviated a little downwards; Eddowes: A superficial cut commenced about an inch and a half below the lobe . . . to about three inches below the lobe of the right ear.

3. CUT DEEPER ON LEFT SIDE -- Stride: LEFT SIDE -- The arteries and other vessels contained in the sheath were all cut through. RIGHT SIDE -- The cut through the tissues on the right side was more superficial. . . The deep vessels on that side (right) were uninjured. From this is was evident that the hemorrhage was caused through the partial severance of the left carotid artery.; Eddowes: LEFT SIDE -- big muscle across the throat was divided through on the left side. The large vessels on the left side of the neck were severed. RIGHT SIDE -- The sheath of the vessels on the right side was just opened. The carotid artery had a fine hole opening, the internal jugular vein was opened about an inch and a half -- not divided.

4. CAUSE OF DEATH -- Stride: the hemorrhage was caused through the partial severance of the left carotid artery; Eddowes -- The cause of death was haemorrhage from the left common carotid artery.

There are, of course, numerous differences, but these basic similiaries convinced me. Do they convince anyone else?

curious

[The Good Michael]

There are, of course, numerous differences, but these basic similiaries convinced me. Do they convince anyone else?

Absolutely. It is a good bit of evidence combined with all the external, but non-physical reasons to help solidify the Stride as Ripper victim argument. What you've posted shows a right-handed person drawing the knife from behind across the victim's neck, much like we see in movies where commandos are making silent kills on the enemy. Of course by the time the knife gets to the right there is less power because of leverage issues, and that is to be expected and especially in Stride's case if she were just quickly dispatched so the killer could scoot out of there.

Mike

[curious]

‘A lot of garrotting (sic) went on. ... You had to be tall to do it.

Tom Wescott

Now, that is an interesting point, isn't it?

curious

[Tom_Wescott]

Yep, we're looking for a tall man if that's correct.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious]

Yep, we're looking for a tall man if that's correct.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

following that thought -- does that rule out all of the men seen with the victims?

Are we talking a stalker? grabbing from ambush? does that perhaps explain the bruised hands?

[Tom_Wescott]

It wouldn't rule out Pipeman, and according to some estimates of Lawendes' man, he was 5'7" or 5'8". As for the hand bruising, I haven't given that a lot of thought. Most of the victims that don't have it. For those who do I suspect it was done when the killer removed the rings from their fingers prior to killing them. Or also possible is the bruising occurred from their everyday life and had nothing to do with their murders. But in the cases of Nichols and Chapman, I'm pretty sure it occurred during the robbery.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

difficult

Hello CD. Thanks.

"If Stride's killer killed in a burst of anger, it would seem that he went from zero right to sixty. No one at the club heard any argument and Liz showed no sign of being slapped about."

Yes. And I find that difficult to believe. What do you think?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

shoving match

Hello Dave.

"And does this not tie in with Schwartz's testimony?"

Yes, it does. But does that not bother you? A chap stops to chat and, in a moment, he comes to a shoving match?

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Hello Dave.

"And does this not tie in with Schwartz's testimony?"

Yes, it does. But does that not bother you? A chap stops to chat and, in a moment, he comes to a shoving match?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn. What does Trevor have to do with Dave's discussion of Schwartz?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

anger

Hello Tom. Thanks.

"Other than there's no obvious signs of anger? No. But there was no yelling, no fighting, no signs of struggle, no marks of fisticuffs, no hesitation marks in the knife wound (which appear in the vast majority of throat-slittings). An absolutely passionless killing."

And I agree. Which is another of my difficulties with Schwartz's story. I have posited anger, but ONLY in keeping with what Israel described.

Cheers.
LC