Did jack kill liz stride?

[Abby Normal]

Hi CD

I think precious may be exactly the word we need.
Don`t forget Eliza Cooper and Annie Chapman came to blows over a small piece of soap.

totally agree and great point.
what they would consider valuable is the main point here-what we do is totally irrelevant.

[Jon Guy]

Hello Ben,

When did cachous become so damn expensive and precious? They're breath mints for crying out loud not diamonds.

c.d.

Hi CD

I think precious may be exactly the word we need.
Don`t forget Eliza Cooper and Annie Chapman came to blows over a small piece of soap.

[caz]

I don't think Michael addressed my point that if the police thought for one moment that Schwartz hadn't seen a man assaulting the murdered woman, and had therefore made the whole thing up, down to the cry of "Lipski!", surely to goodness that would have made him more likely to become the focus of some serious police questions.

It's similar - dare I say it - to the Hutch saga, where this witness is meant to have invented the last man seen with Kelly, then been allowed to slip right off the radar when his account was no longer considered credible.

Once would be careless, but twice?

Love,

Caz
X

[c.d.]

I don't think C.D. is missing anything. Swanson's Oct. 19th report was written well after the inquest and makes it very clear where Schwartz stood in the scope of things. The reason for his not being at the inquest is not because the police didn't believe him.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yeah, what Tom said.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Exactly Ben. Any forensic expert will tell you that it is not uncommon that violently murdered people, even violently killed people such as car accident victims, are found with objects clenched in there hands.

Maybe so, but what we are talking about here is breaking your fall and trying to get back up.

Let's not confuse the B.S. man story with Liz's death.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Ben,

When did cachous become so damn expensive and precious? They're breath mints for crying out loud not diamonds.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

cd, ...youre missing the bigger picture on this point first off....its not just that he didnt appear... his story, (clearly THE most important witness account if true, considering the time and the fact BSM would be the last person seen with Liz), was not mentioned, referenced, referred to, alluded to or submitted in written form. Suggesting that the above means that the police didnt feel his story was truthful or that they felt it wasnt important in the assessment of who killed Liz Stride is speculation...its the logical extension of the known facts and a reasonable answer for, or explanation of, the storys absence.

I don't think C.D. is missing anything. Swanson's Oct. 19th report was written well after the inquest and makes it very clear where Schwartz stood in the scope of things. The reason for his not being at the inquest is not because the police didn't believe him.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Thank you Bridewell, it's mutual I assure you.

I particularly enjoy your posts also, as they tend to be very reasonable and well thought out.

Just don't accept any water from him...or stand under his front window in the morning.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Michael,

You keep trying to get mileage out of the fact that Schwartz did not testify in front of Baxter. The fact is that neither you nor anybody else knows why. Therefore, any possible reason put forth is mere speculation.

c.d.

cd, ...youre missing the bigger picture on this point first off....its not just that he didnt appear... his story, (clearly THE most important witness account if true, considering the time and the fact BSM would be the last person seen with Liz), was not mentioned, referenced, referred to, alluded to or submitted in written form. Suggesting that the above means that the police didnt feel his story was truthful or that they felt it wasnt important in the assessment of who killed Liz Stride is speculation...its the logical extension of the known facts and a reasonable answer for, or explanation of, the storys absence.

If you remove Israel Schwartz's story....as was done at the Inquest, you have what appears to be a final sighting of Liz Stride at 12:35 by PC Smith. Fanny didnt see her after that, apparently Lave or Eagle didnt see her, and Louis says he found her on the ground at 1. So...how is it that Liz is in the immediate area of the club, and not out on the street, according to Fanny at 12:50 at least, and no-one sees her?

How is it that Louis says he arrived at 1 to find her dead, and Issac, Gillen, and Spooner all say they were alerted to the dead woman before 12:45?

You have only to use your cognitive powers to see that the story provided by the senior club members has many problems. Why would that be?

Cheers

[Abby Normal]

You have posted some really good stuff on this thread, Abby. I especially like the last sentence.

Thank you Bridewell, it's mutual I assure you.

I particularly enjoy your posts also, as they tend to be very reasonable and well thought out.

[Bridewell]

A murdered victim who is seen being assaulted only minutes before being found dead (and again by a man described as wearing a peaked cap) more probably than not was killed by that man. I think any police detective would say that the man seen assaulting her would be person of interest number one, especially since no other suspects are in the picture. Also, without evidence to the contrary the eye witness evidence of the assault should be considered truthful.

You have posted some really good stuff on this thread, Abby. I especially like the last sentence.

[Bridewell]

Hello Colin.

"Is it probable that the Jews among whom she had been working were also Jews who attended a Club with anarchist sympathies?"

She most likely charred for the observant Jews on a given Sabbath. But they were at loggerheads with the anarchists.

Cheers.
LC

Thanks, Lynn. That was my impression.

[lynn cates]

Ah!

Hello Ben.

". . . the better argument is that Schwartz made the whole thing up."

Now you're talking.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

throat

Hello CD. Close. But when there is pressure to the throat, the hands clench.

Try it.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

I wouldn't, CD.

I'd expect her to retain at all costs that which she considered valuable for her services that night (and potentially costly to replace), which could have been achieved very easily by clenching her fists containing cachous as she fended off her attacker. This would be perfectly consistent with BS as Stride's killer. Should you dispute this, for whatever reason, the better argument is that Schwartz made the whole thing up. Better, at least, than arguing that a vastly improbable second attacker arrived on the scene and attacked her in the same location as the first attack from an entirely unrelated first attacker just a few minutes later - a scenario that fits very disastrously indeed with the retained cachous.

All the best,
Ben

Exactly Ben. Any forensic expert will tell you that it is not uncommon that violently murdered people, even violently killed people such as car accident victims, are found with objects clenched in there hands.