Did jack kill liz stride?

[sleekviper]

Hello Tom!
Stride does not need to be wet though, and the rain does not need to be coming down, it needs to be wet on the surface. Puddles, mud, that sort of area. I see what you are saying about a robbery, it is just an option to a scenario that can not go anywhere without knowing the type of cachous that she was holding. If he cared about the knife, he would wipe the blade after the cut, if he didn't care for it, why risk carrying it around after a kill? It seems feasible to me, if Schwartz is telling the truth. It does not matter though since the broad term of cachous could include types that do not dissolve on the tongue.

[Wickerman]

Well, there was a little bit more to their 'row' than a piece of soap.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Exactly Tom.
This is just another case of someone only seeing what they want to see, and ignore the rest.

[Wickerman]

Not quite, Wick. The medical evidence concludes that Nichols and Chapman were robbed prior to murder and the crime scene evidence suggests the same in the case of Stride and Eddowes. No sense fighting the facts.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom, when you remove your own ring you twist & turn it so as not to injure yourself.

"...There was an abrasion over the bend of the first joint of the ring finger,..."
Thats the medical evidence.

An abrasion is the result of someone else not being so thoughtful, the rings were removed by someone else.

[lynn cates]

composure

Hello Tom.

"After all, you don't fight an armed man who tells you he won't hurt you if you stay silent. You do as he says."

Unless you involuntarily lose your composure and scream.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

experiment

Hello CD. An excellent experiment.

And I agree--the cachous were not there IF there was an assault. But was there one in the first place?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

nub

Hello Joe.

"She is not in the yard for the Schwartz encounter, so placing cachous in her hand at that point doesn't make sense. Either the cachous come into play later, or Schwartz is not telling the truth."

And that, to my mind, is the nub of the matter.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Cachous are sweetmeats are breathmints. There was nothing unusual about them and they weren't that expensive. Good to remember that Stride was not as destitute as Nichols or Chapman.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Nope, the two variants differ, Tom. And that is of interest, since it can be reasoned that breath mints would be part of the prostitute´s toolbox, whereas sweetmeats would not be. Meaning that if they were sweetmeats - and they were described as such - they fit in together with her flowers as a probable gift. Breathmints would more be like something she bought herself, as proposed by many theorists out here. It must be added, though, thatI have not been able to find any other case where a prostitute carried breath mints on her person.

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

...is an excellent point, Jon.

Well, there was a little bit more to their 'row' than a piece of soap.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ben]

I think precious may be exactly the word we need.
Don`t forget Eliza Cooper and Annie Chapman came to blows over a small piece of soap.

...is an excellent point, Jon.

[Tom_Wescott]

Thats kind of pointless isn't it Tom?
Just kill them and take what you want, why wait for them to fumble and faff about going through pockets and pouches?

If they were robbed as part of the assault, it was after the fact, not before.

Not quite, Wick. The medical evidence concludes that Nichols and Chapman were robbed prior to murder and the crime scene evidence suggests the same in the case of Stride and Eddowes. No sense fighting the facts.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Nichols and Chapman had their rings removed prior to death. Eddowes had a thimble next to her hand. Stride had cachous in her hand. What this says to me is that they were robbed prior to being murdered.

Thats kind of pointless isn't it Tom?
Just kill them and take what you want, why wait for them to fumble and faff about going through pockets and pouches?

If they were robbed as part of the assault, it was after the fact, not before.

[Tom_Wescott]

An inquest was not the accumulated data of the police investigation.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with why Schwartz didn't appear. As the primary witness, in most cases he'd have been a star witness. But the police did not want him to appear. They also wanted him secreted from the press. It's not too big a stretch to figure out why.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Sleek. Yes, it had rained, but it stopped at about 11:30pm. Stride was not in the rain at all and her clothes were dry. The cachous would have clearly been securely wrapped, probably a few times over. The knife would not have had any blood on it. The killer did not put the cachous in Stride's already clenched fist after death. See my last post for the solution to the cachous issue.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sleekviper]

Hello Tom!
I mean the type of cachous, it could make a difference on an avenue of thinking. It doesn't mean that something has happened, but can close a door; which is just as important. If she has none floating around in her pockets, and the only containment is tissue paper, I wondered about it a minute. Then I wondered about tissue paper not snagging on a hook, combs, buttons, spoon, and pencil. Not a big deal, anything is possible, so looking at cachous it appears they come in different forms. The interesting thing, to me, is that some dissolve, and it had rained. I suppose that her blood would work if it had not rained, but it had.So if a killer had planned a double, and he was not sure what the club members would do as far as speed in reporting a dead woman in the yard, her time of death becomes important. So kill Stride, clean the blade, set down the knife to place a tissue with some cachous in her hand, spread some on wet ground to begin dissolving. All police have to do is set the same type in water to have a pretty good idea of time of death by how long it takes to reach the same state as those found. Pick up the knife and find that it was set in mud, so clean it on Strides dress. The clock has started so no time to worry about where he cleans it, her dress will do. Nice thought I figure, but without knowing what she held, can only treat it as a type that would not dissolve properly.

[Hunter]

An inquest was not the accumulated data of the police investigation.