Elizabeth Stride ..who killed her ?

[c.d.]

A better interpretation on my view is that Schwartz lied and Stride was killed by PC Smith's suspect at about 12:45.

What reason would Schwartz have for lying?

c.d.

[John G]

A better interpretation on my view is that Schwartz lied and Stride was killed by PC Smith's suspect at about 12:45.

[c.d.]

"If Schwartz did see what he claims he saw, then 'BS Man' is almost undoubtedly Stride's killer, as the chances of her being assaulted by a second man are slim to none."

Hello Harry,

This is an old post from you that I came across while reviewing this thread.

I have trouble understanding your total opposition to a second man and that man being her killer. Schwartz may have technically described an assault but we know absolutely nothing about what initiated it or what the B.S. man's intentions might have been. Whitechapel (as I understand it to be) was a rough place. Here you have a lone woman out late at night right when the pubs are closing and a number of the men on the street had been drinking. Is it so inconceivable that Stride might have initiated the incident saying or doing something that angered the B.S. man so that he gives her a shove perhaps harder than he meant to? Cusses her out and goes on his way? It really needn't be anything more sinister than that.

Could it be that you are interpreting it in light of what happened afterwards so that it becomes much more significant in light of her being killed a short time later?

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

But PC Lamb testified that the body looked like it had been quietly laid down. You would expect a non-Jack killer to just let the body fall.

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

I don't agree - it's possible to me that the double event was planned, and that he intentionally did not mutilate victim #1 so that he would still appear presentable to victim #2.

That said, the flaw in Michael Richard's post is that he assumes that Dimshultz must be the disturber. It didn't even have to be an actual person. The killer could easily have been spooked by what he thought was the sound of the club door opening, or something else.

In fact I dont believe Louis disturbed anything or anyone. I believe he came upon a situation that required some quick thinking...and I believe that was probably much closer to 12:45 than it was 1am. What this scene lacks is any kind of evidence that the killer of Liz Stride so much as touched her after the throat cut, when she easily could have been at the very least rolled onto her back. But that would only happen if her killer wished to do what the mutilator at large did.

[Damaso Marte]

I couldn't agree.

In fact, he would surely be the first serial killer in history who was setting up a decoy before moving on to his 'real' intention. This simply does not happen.

I think that if the double event were planned, both of them would have been "real" intentions.

In my view of the intended double event theory, he intended to kill two women, not kill one woman in order to kill a second woman.

[wigngown]

Unlike Sutcliffe, he was never caught. I respect your opinion and luck no doubt did play a part but I suspect not to the degree you believe.
Best regards.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I don't agree - it's possible to me that the double event was planned, and that he intentionally did not mutilate victim #1 so that he would still appear presentable to victim #2.

That said, the flaw in Michael Richard's post is that he assumes that Dimshultz must be the disturber. It didn't even have to be an actual person. The killer could easily have been spooked by what he thought was the sound of the club door opening, or something else.

I couldn't agree.

In fact, he would surely be the first serial killer in history who was setting up a decoy before moving on to his 'real' intention. This simply does not happen.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I believe the Killer wanted to be in control at all times, he was cunning and calculated, he left little if anything to chance. I think it's highly likely that he already knew where the best places to kill were & if he was able to, he made sure that's where the killings took place. To escape the scene after each killing, he surely must have known the area very well indeed.
Best regards.

I think the opposite.

To me he was just like Peter Sutcliffe, The Yorkshire Ripper.

Opportunistic and was simply lucky where many other serial killers weren't.

[John G]

Hello Damaso,

You are right that a disturbance, if there was one, needn't have come from Diemschutz. It could have been anything.

c.d.

Such as Fanny Mortimer coming to her doorstep after Stride was attacked by PC Smith's suspect. In fact, this seems to be the most likely scenario.

[c.d.]

I don't agree - it's possible to me that the double event was planned, and that he intentionally did not mutilate victim #1 so that he would still appear presentable to victim #2.

That said, the flaw in Michael Richard's post is that he assumes that Dimshultz must be the disturber. It didn't even have to be an actual person. The killer could easily have been spooked by what he thought was the sound of the club door opening, or something else.

Hello Damaso,

You are right that a disturbance, if there was one, needn't have come from Diemschutz. It could have been anything.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Unless Stride was murdered by Michael Kidney. As far as I know, nothing rules him out, but he was taking one hell of a risk attending the inquest if he did do it.

Hello Harry,

With respect to Kidney, I think there are three possibilities:

1. The police were complete idiots and it never occurred to them that Stride's ex-lover who she apparently left and who had a history of domestic violence towards her could have been her killer;

2. They asked him for an alibi which checked out; or

3. If he had no alibi, they asked Schwartz to identify him.

I would suspect that it was number two.

c.d.

[wigngown]

I believe the Killer wanted to be in control at all times, he was cunning and calculated, he left little if anything to chance. I think it's highly likely that he already knew where the best places to kill were & if he was able to, he made sure that's where the killings took place. To escape the scene after each killing, he surely must have known the area very well indeed.
Best regards.

[wigngown]

Perssonally, I think he was disturbed after killing victim 1, fled & then found the unfortunate 2nd victim: but who knows, your theory is just as possible.
Best regards.

[Rosella]

All serial killers take risks. Jack and/or his clients chose dark locales. Sometimes it worked out for him, sometimes it didn't. He was interrupted or spooked by noise in the case of Stride and so he went on to kill and mutilate Kate Eddowes in Mitre Square. (That one cool, deep slash of Liz Stride's throat that ended her life was swift and sure and her killer knew what he was doing.)

Jack could have been interrupted in Mitre Square by Morris the watchman coming out for a breath of fresh air, but he wasn't, so he was lucky. You can't discount luck in any of this, and the Ripper had plenty of it.