The Berner Street Con(spiracy)

[Tom_Wescott]

I'm not even saying that I subscribe to the theory that Diemschutz interrupted the killer. It's certainly possible. But there's a number of other possibilities. However, it's extremely unlikely that Stride was killed at 12:46am and if you had Blackwell here to ask him, he'd say that was within the realm of possibility, but not the most likely scenario, which is pretty much what he said back then.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

If dead people are in the right position blood can drip from a wound courtesy of gravity. But if their hearts ain't beating they can't chugg it out by the bucket load.

Edward Spooner said that blood "was still flowing" from Stride's throat. If that was true, then Stride was still alive at the time.

Regards,

Simon

[c.d.]

Since the burden of proof for an assumption that the club may have covered up some aspects of that night is being met with statements and circumstantial evidence that is on record,....how about detractors use the same burden of proof......prove Jack was interrupted. Prove that anyone who you think saw blood flowing in the dark was a qualified opinion.....prove that The Ripper entered at the last minutes using known data...prove that we have any reason to think he cuts victims once, and kills twice a night.

My opinion is offered with evidence that supports it...countering with only your opinion that anything could have happened isnt a counter at all.

Best regards

Hi Michael,

So if read that correctly you are right and everyone else is wrong. All opinions are equal but some opinions are more equal than others.

Oh please.

c.d.

[perrymason]

Hi Michael,

I am operating on the assumption that Jack didn't want to be caught and hanged. Now if you accept that assumption, that helps explain a lot.

Known data and science haven't solved the question of who killed Liz or we wouldn't be debating it.

c.d.

No you arent assuming that at all...you are assuming the man who gained a nickname by Ripping women after killing them might only just kill even when he can hear someone coming, and that he might make a single cut, cut the victim while falling this time, and that it frustrates him so much he does to Kate everything he has already done to 2 consecutive victims before Liz, and just added facial cuts to show his "frustration".

Without Liz in the Canonical Group, you have 3 women killed consecutively, within 5 weeks, and with virtually identical acquisition and murder styles, and very similar abdominal cutting.

Im waiting for "but Jack wasnt feeling himself that night" as the next counter strategy.

Best regards

[Tom_Wescott]

Simon,

She may have been technically alive, but brain dead and beyond saving. But let me say I'm a little confused. I thought you bought into Michael's idea that she was killed at 12:45. If what you say is correct, then she would have been cut about the time she was found. She certainly didn't spend the day out there bleeding out slowly.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[perrymason]

Hi Michael,

So if read that correctly you are right and everyone else is wrong. All opinions are equal but some opinions are more equal than others.

Oh please.

c.d.

I know you can read, but do you? Name one piece of evidence that supports your claim that Jack the Ripper killed Liz Stride, or that he was interrupted, that he would kill only, cut once, or kill twice a night?

Regards

[Tom_Wescott]

Why is everyone jumping C.D's arse today?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. Be careful with those kind of questions, Michael, cuz they can come right back to you.

[perrymason]

This murder is so blatantly not Jack, that to engage anyone else in that discussion any longer for me is pointless,....so Ill bid you adieu, and let the nonsense flow without my disruption.

Thank god this resource doesnt require that evidence be submitted with counter posts.....there never would have been a Liz Stride/Ripper thread beyond an opening post.

Good luck.

[perrymason]

This murder is so blatantly not Jack, that to engage anyone else in that discussion any longer for me is pointless,....so Ill bid you adieu, and let the nonsense flow without my disruption.

Thank god this resource doesnt require that evidence be submitted with counter posts.....there never would have been a Liz Stride/Ripper thread beyond an opening post.

Good luck.

editted to add.......the above is your answer Tom.

[c.d.]

I know you can read, but do you? Name one piece of evidence that supports your claim that Jack the Ripper killed Liz Stride, or that he was interrupted, that he would kill only, cut once, or kill twice a night?

Regards

Jeez Michael. Take a chill pill. I didn't direct any discourtesy to you so don't do it to me.

Can you PROVE to me that the BS man killed Liz?

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

You're such a bully, C.D.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

You're such a bully, C.D.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I love it when you're butch, Tom.

c.d.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

So Liz Stride was brain dead but technically alive?

Jeez, I've caught eels that have wriggled less than you.

Every living person on the planet has grown up believing Stride was dead when Louis Diemschitz entered Dutfields Yard at 1.00 am.

They also grew up believing that her murderer was Jack the Ripper, who was interrupted by said Louis Diemschitz [hence no bodily mutilations to Stride] and went off to slake his lustmord by killing Catherine Eddowes in Mitre Square.

Our thread will never get to the truth of what really happened in Berner Street, but it would be a giant step forward for Ripperology if we could at least agree that there is more than sufficient evidence to suggest that the hoary old double-event scenario is a myth.

Failing that, I suggest we all go along with Michael's "The Ripper had a headache that night."

Regards,

Simon

[Tom_Wescott]

Simon,

None of this is new to me or new to these boards. We've discussed the possibly that Liz wasn't completely dead at the time She was found. It doesn't change much. Her heart was still pumping blood. That doesn't make her alive, it makes her dying.

What exactly does this change if it is in fact the case?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Failing that, I suggest we all go along with Michael's "The Ripper had a headache that night."

Or it could simply be that the increased police patrols made him a little bit more paranoid than before.

c.d.