If Liz Had Been Mutilated

[Malcolm X]

For me, its the above, and the fact that almost all relevant witnesses regarding that murder are Club members...perhaps even Schwartz himself,.. that is the signal to me that they had the opportunity to place Liz outside the yard being accosted by man passing by, just before being killed....and to state that the yard was empty when this happened.

The Club members had every opportunity to create a scenario that suggests no-one from their club was involved.

If the truth, its coincidentally a very advantageous truth for them, and if it wasnt, they would have had plenty of reasons to cover that up, and the opportunity to do so....they are the only witnesses regarding the state of the yard at that time.

And in case their conscience is an issue at all....at least they can be fairly sure that the person, if from the club, wasnt actually Jack...based on what is done to Liz.

Best regards

so you're saying that it could be a conspiracy involving the club members........you'll get stick for this post!

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

In that case; most probably Catherine Eddowes wouldn't have been a victim!

And while writing this a thought came to my mind; maybe the break between Liz and Mary Kelly wouldn't have been that long... Yes, meaning, that almost being caught might have scared Jacky's guts (Aargh, what a metaphor! )!

All the best
Jukka

Its the location as much as anything else to me,it was so public and with the club being used at the time it was also a totally unnecessary risk.

For me, its the above, and the fact that almost all relevant witnesses regarding that murder are Club members...perhaps even Schwartz himself,.. that is the signal to me that they had the opportunity to place Liz outside the yard being accosted by man passing by, just before being killed....and to state that the yard was empty when this happened.

The Club members had every opportunity to create a scenario that suggests no-one from their club was involved.

If the truth, its coincidentally a very advantageous truth for them, and if it wasnt, they would have had plenty of reasons to cover that up, and the opportunity to do so....they are the only witnesses regarding the state of the yard at that time.

And in case their conscience is an issue at all....at least they can be fairly sure that the person, if from the club, wasnt actually Jack...based on what is done to Liz.

Best regards

[c.d.]

Hi Halomanuk,

You make a good point but I think Jack always had to balance the need to kill against the risk of being caught. I think with Liz, the need to kill outweighed his judgment.

c.d.

[halomanuk]

Its the location as much as anything else to me,it was so public and with the club being used at the time it was also a totally unnecessary risk.

[Malcolm X]

If it were Jack, I would assume his intent was to kill her with a cut to the throat not to try to see if he could match exactly the way he did it before.

c.d.

yes true, but not at the expense of getting covered in blood.

[c.d.]

If it were Jack, I would assume his intent was to kill her with a cut to the throat not to try to see if he could match exactly the way he did it before.

c.d.

[halomanuk]

Thats why Liz is still the odd one out to me,it was just too public a place and too risky,and the knife size etc...

[Malcolm X]

If she'd been mutilated, then I wouldn't doubt her candidacy as a Ripper victim as much. But it's not the lack of mutilations that's the issue for me; it's the throat wound. I'd have at least expected Stride's to be as severe as Eddowes', but they're remarkably dissimilar. The only reason Stride's thought to be a Ripper victim is due to the theory that Jack was interrupted, but if he was disturbed during the Stride murder, then it would've been whilst he was actually cutting her throat, not after. It's quite unlikely for a small number of reasons for Jack to have been interrupted after he'd actually killed her.

the small throat cut is interesting, i think it's done to prevent blood from squirting all over him.......he's cutting her on the side of the neck that's not facing his direction. ... the almost severing of the head is done post mortem, when no more blood can spurt out....no blood pressure!

the Ripper was distubed between the two cuts.........but before she had died that's the most likely if JACK killed her..

that location is as dodgy as hell, so expect him to mutilate her faster than normal, so she was still alive with him imapatiently waiting; when all of a sudden he heard a cart comming along..... ``right i'm off, it could be comming in here``

[Malcolm X]

If your viewpoint is that she was slain by the same killer as Catherine then you may consider that mutilations to Liz would mean that there would be no second killing.

What if though, both women had been mutilated? Personally I think the double event theory is only feasible if the first attempt didn't "satisfy" him, so we would maybe still assume a copycat murder.

Apologies if I haven't worded this well, have just finished nights.

yes i work nights too, havent slept for 2 days, they really screw you up; the brain just dies on you, i'm so damn tired....

i mean that if Stride was mutilated, then i doubt there would've been a second murder..............unless he needed a second murder in the other location..... i'm not sure!

[DVV]

if Stride was a full blown ripper victim, then he might not have killed Eddowes...

Aaaaargghh!
Poor Diemshutz...
His arrival did not save Liz, and prompted Jack to kill Kate...
May God forgive him.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

If she'd been mutilated, then I wouldn't doubt her candidacy as a Ripper victim as much. But it's not the lack of mutilations that's the issue for me; it's the throat wound. I'd have at least expected Stride's to be as severe as Eddowes', but they're remarkably dissimilar. The only reason Stride's thought to be a Ripper victim is due to the theory that Jack was interrupted, but if he was disturbed during the Stride murder, then it would've been whilst he was actually cutting her throat, not after. It's quite unlikely for a small number of reasons for Jack to have been interrupted after he'd actually killed her.

[Mrs Darrell]

If your viewpoint is that she was slain by the same killer as Catherine then you may consider that mutilations to Liz would mean that there would be no second killing.

What if though, both women had been mutilated? Personally I think the double event theory is only feasible if the first attempt didn't "satisfy" him, so we would maybe still assume a copycat murder.

Apologies if I haven't worded this well, have just finished nights.

[Malcolm X]

If Liz was mutilated the same way as Eddowes then at least the 2 murders could be linked and an official 'double event ' could be confirmed.
It would certainly bring her in closer to the other victims,rather than being the odd one out.

hi Barry

if Stride was a full blown ripper victim, then he might not have killed Eddowes...unless of course, he definitely needed a victim in Dutfields; as well as another that night.........

two triangles 6 points...or 5 points, i'm not sure yet.... i need to get time off work before i can do any serious investigating... it's too tiring and time consuming right now.

[halomanuk]

If Liz was mutilated the same way as Eddowes then at least the 2 murders could be linked and an official 'double event ' could be confirmed.
It would certainly bring her in closer to the other victims,rather than being the odd one out.