A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match

[Caligo Umbrator]

I would suppose that as almost all of the pertinent information is already within the public domain and has been disseminated many times, very little forward movement on the case could be made without the involvement of those recently engaged in the mDNA investigation.

This is not to state that I agree with their findings, simply that I recognise the commercial imperatives that are likely to operate for the following 18 months or so.

We may have to wait awhile, before discovering the full truth of the matter.

Yours, Caligo.

[mickreed]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...pp-tim-7947235

Sad, sad, sad.

I agree, Dusty. I saw your comment under the Echo's article. Agree in spades.

I'm just amazed at how useless the majority of journalists are in accepting the 'solved' notion. I hope - and believe - that there are exceptions, but so many just accept the claims uncritically.

As you implied in your comment - the 'evidence' in the book is puerile for the most part.

And JL is now firmly on the promotional trail with his 'brother' RE.

[GUT]

G'day Mick

And JL is now firmly on the promotional trail with his 'brother' RE.

I suspect he always has been. At least since the news broke and the potential for $, for him or his research became apparent.

[MrBarnett]

Why are you all being so horrible to someone who is clearly just a decent $cientist?

[GUT]

Why are you all being so horrible to someone who is clearly just a decent $cientist?

To be fair I think he probably is a decent scientist, however it is a reality of life at a University today that publishing, publicity and bringing in $ is the key to getting ahead.

I seem to recall that one of the doctor's first comments [at least that read] was to the effect that more funds were needed to further research the shawl.

[MrBarnett]

To be fair I think he probably is a decent scientist, however it is a reality of life at a University today that publishing, publicity and bringing in $ is the key to getting ahead.

I seem to recall that one of the doctor's first comments [at least that read] was to the effect that more funds were needed to further research the shawl.

Gut,

Take no notice of anything I say. For the most part my comments are pathetic attempts at a wind-up.

But to be serious for a mo, I do wonder why Jari got himself involved with a subject that to the average, reasonably intelligent member of the public is on a par with Nessie, the shroud of Turin and 'did Bob Hope kill JFK and Marylyn?' ?

We devotees know different. But he apparently didn't. Or is it the case that outside of the English speaking world JTR is known solely as a Victorian cold case, devoid of any mythic entanglements?

MrB

[GUT]

G'day MrB

I am really not sure.

I can imagine any academic, not being aware of almost anything outside their own little world, [my wife have worked at a University for years and knowing many academics on a personal level].

I can also picture him being asked to undertake some research that was intellectually interesting, in one narrow area, to him and so doing the tests but then ending up well out of his area of expertise, and most academics won't admit when they find themselves in such a position.

[In response to your ealrier question he was mainly you stupid mutt, but often Tup, I can't find that thread]

[mickreed]

Gut,

Take no notice of anything I say. For the most part my comments are pathetic attempts at a wind-up.

But to be serious for a mo, I do wonder why Jari got himself involved with a subject that to the average, reasonably intelligent member of the public is on a par with Nessie, the shroud of Turin and 'did Bob Hope kill JFK and Marylyn?' ?

We devotees know different. But he apparently didn't. Or is it the case that outside of the English speaking world JTR is known solely as a Victorian cold case, devoid of any mythic entanglements?

MrB

We've been through all this before, but I still can't my head round the following:

1. How does an intelligent bloke, as JL must be, get taken in by arguments such as those RE puts in the book? The old questions of provenance; the extrapolations that RE makes from zero evidence etc. It suggests a very uncritical approach to knowledge and research. He did sort of allude to this in an early interview, when he referred to RE's 'personal journey', which some of us thought was him distancing himself from some of RE's more outrageous claims.

2. How does a DNA specialist get 314.1C down as vanishingly rare?

3. Even when the second of these is pointed out by at least two people in personal communications, why does it not even warrant a quick check?

JL, please tell, because I really would like to know.

[RockySullivan]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...pp-tim-7947235

Sad, sad, sad.

thanks for posting! I'm not sure whats funnier...that ms jari is delusional enough to think johnny depp would be cast as him..or that the writer suggests meatloaf will haha! clearly these two or not in their right minds and are just total 15 min fame hoz who live by the "fake it till you get caught it" mentality.

[MrBarnett]

We've been through all this before, but I still can't my head round the following:

1. How does an intelligent bloke, as JL must be, get taken in by arguments such as those RE puts in the book? The old questions of provenance; the extrapolations that RE makes from zero evidence etc. It suggests a very uncritical approach to knowledge and research. He did sort of allude to this in an early interview, when he referred to RE's 'personal journey', which some of us thought was him distancing himself from some of RE's more outrageous claims.

2. How does a DNA specialist get 314.1C down as vanishingly rare?

3. Even when the second of these is pointed out by at least two people in personal communications, why does it not even warrant a quick check?

JL, please tell, because I really would like to know.

Mick,

Now you know why Jari doesn't answer.

He's too busy down his local, The Shawl and Semen Stain, practising Bat Out of Hell on the karaoke machine.

MrB

[tji]

I do wonder if he was joking about Johnny Depp playing him - tongue in cheek sort of thing.

I would love Drew Barrymore to play me in a story of my life ........ I would probably get Drew Carey

[Amanda]

Really? I Jest!

Hi Amanda,

I really can't see this ever becoming a movie. At least not a movie based purely on the book. One could juxtapose scenes from the events in 1888 to the modern day investigation, I suppose but I think the drama would be limited.
It really would have to be a ' Da Vinci code ' style movie to work.

Hi Caligo,
Please tell me you didn't think I was serious about the Tim Burton movie....

Most important question is this, how on earth would they ever be able to base a movie on the 'evidence' of the shawl?

First issue would be tying Amos Simpson into the plot, as there seems to be no concrete documentation to put him anywhere near the scene.
I for one feel pretty confident that no 'A-list director ' (quote RE) would waste their dollars on such a huge gamble.

Wouldn't be surprised if RE went to the Liverpool press with this, just to bump up the book sales as they must be struggling.

On a lighter note, if RE has really spent £750,000 on his quest, why does he always appear wearing the same black shirt & trousers......?

[John G]

Hi Caligo,
Please tell me you didn't think I was serious about the Tim Burton movie....

Most important question is this, how on earth would they ever be able to base a movie on the 'evidence' of the shawl?

First issue would be tying Amos Simpson into the plot, as there seems to be no concrete documentation to put him anywhere near the scene.
I for one feel pretty confident that no 'A-list director ' (quote RE) would waste their dollars on such a huge gamble.

Wouldn't be surprised if RE went to the Liverpool press with this, just to bump up the book sales as they must be struggling.

On a lighter note, if RE has really spent £750,000 on his quest, why does he always appear wearing the same black shirt & trousers......?

In respect of whether PC Amos Simpson was at the scene have you given serious consideration to my earlier hypothesis that, on the night of Eddowes' murder, the Islington police could have been trialing a prototype helicopter from which PC Amos could have been parachuted into Mitre Square?

Mind you, on further reflection, I'm beginning to think that this might be a little far-fetched!

Cheers,

John

[MrBarnett]

Hi Caligo,
Please tell me you didn't think I was serious about the Tim Burton movie....

Most important question is this, how on earth would they ever be able to base a movie on the 'evidence' of the shawl?

First issue would be tying Amos Simpson into the plot, as there seems to be no concrete documentation to put him anywhere near the scene.
I for one feel pretty confident that no 'A-list director ' (quote RE) would waste their dollars on such a huge gamble.

Wouldn't be surprised if RE went to the Liverpool press with this, just to bump up the book sales as they must be struggling.

On a lighter note, if RE has really spent £750,000 on his quest, why does he always appear wearing the same black shirt & trousers......?

Amanda,

It's already been cast. Ricky Tomlinson is to play RE and Caroline Aherne will be Jari. The provisional title is 'Shawl, My Arse!'

MrB

[MrBarnett]

John,

What an absurd idea. Mitre square is in the City, Met helicopters would have had no jurisdiction.