A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match

[RockySullivan]

I still can't wrap my head around why any of you bought the book. It was clear from the beginning that Edwards was running a scam to line his pockets as fast as possible. Remember, don't be a sucker!

[mickreed]

Hi, Mickreed,


Of some small concern is the publishers statement - "this does not change the DNA profiling match and the probability of the match calculated from the rest of the haplotype data. The conclusion reached in the book, that Aaron Kosminski was Jack the Ripper, relies on much more than this one figure."
I'm not sure if you purchased the book but many of us did fork over $24+ for it. Having done so I would be very unhappy to discover that there was information pertinent to the claims that was held back, as the publishers statement seems to indicate.

Were the publishers uncertain of the science? Or is there a darker reason?
Did they perhaps suspect that moves would be taken to discredit the book and the science behind it and so they took measures to counter that by keeping back some of the research information for a 'reveal' at a later stage?
Yours, Caligo.

Yes, Caligo I did buy the book - as an ebook - and due to incompetence I bought it twice. Once for my Kindle and once for my iPad.

I imagine the publishers are uncertain what to say. To say it's a stuff-up would kill sales stone dead. If they are claiming that there is more than is in the book, then that's outrageous because if it exists, it should be in the book. JL actually intimated as much on one of his interviews, but that was confined to the 'Kosminski' DNA and not that of 'Eddowes'.

In fact their claim that Kosminski was the Ripper 'relies on much more than this one figure' is surely misplaced. The claim that AK was the Ripper does not rely on this figure at all.

This figure of 314.1C/315.1C is what links the shawl to the victim not the killer. Even if, and it won't happen I'm sure, they could prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that AK's DNA was on the shawl, the link to Eddowes is gone. Let's not forget that, superficially, this was much more enticing than the Kosminski DNA claims. They, as presented, are so imprecise as to be virtually meaningless. This, on the other hand, seemed to have a bit of rigour and precision to it.

Moreover, anything that JL comes up with now will be subjected to the utmost scrutiny. He's made a schoolboy mistake and must be feeling pretty rough. I feel for him. He is unlikely to be believed whatever he comes up with from now on - at least in connection with this.

[mickreed]

I still can't wrap my head around why any of you bought the book. It was clear from the beginning that Edwards was running a scam to line his pockets as fast as possible. Remember, don't be a sucker!

I was actually given a copy Rocky, but I still bought it for one reason only. It was obviously BS but since I wanted to write a review of it, which will be out in a week or two, I felt that I ought, in fairness, give RE a small amount of dosh before my review was published.

[Caligo Umbrator]

I still can't wrap my head around why any of you bought the book. It was clear from the beginning that Edwards was running a scam to line his pockets as fast as possible. Remember, don't be a sucker!

Hi, Rocky.

I can't speak to why anyone else here purchased it but I felt, iregardless of whether or not I might be helping to line someone's pocket, that I had to fully comprehend the nature of the claims being made. I believe its important, if one intends to critique someone's work, to be familiar with that work.
It's not a terrible book, its also not a great book. If you've ever read a personal psychic/mythic quest book from the late 70's or early 80's, you'll find this to be fairly similar in presentation.
If you see it for a couple of quid at your local secondhand bookshop, pick it up.
Yours , Caligo

[GUT]

I still can't wrap my head around why any of you bought the book. It was clear from the beginning that Edwards was running a scam to line his pockets as fast as possible. Remember, don't be a sucker!

Bit rough to rip it to shreds if you haven't read it.

[mickreed]

Bit rough to rip it to shreds if you haven't read it.

I agree Gut, and g'day btw.

Having said that, it was not hard to see through most of it from the interviews, bits on Google Books, and so on. It was clearly nonsense, apart from the stuff about the Eddowes DNA which I said earlier, and I think you agreed, would, if confirmed, be interesting indeed.

Thanks to the efforts of Chris et al, and now the Independent, we know it ain't going to be confirmed.

So maybe it's Rocky 1, the rest of us nil.

[mickreed]

I wonder if they will still go to Salisbury. After Lechmere's urgings, I bought a return flight from Sydney.

Actually, I didn't, but I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall with this out there.

[GUT]

G'day Mick

Having said that, it was not hard to see through most of it from the interviews, bits on Google Books, and so on. It was clearly nonsense, apart from the stuff about the Eddowes DNA which I said earlier, and I think you agreed, would, if confirmed, be interesting indeed.

Yep. But we were still only working with snippets which is a bit like a jury deciding a case having only heard part of the evidence.

And yes if either DNA could be proven it would be interesting.

[mickreed]

This comment follows the Independent article and gets to the nub of it.

SARJANA 3 hours ago
ripper is secondary thing here, main point here is that louhelainen make mistake. hope that nobody's life is not hes hands, i dont mean death but life, if he is leading police investigations or something else important to somebody life, sounds fatal mistake.luckily riper is already dead so are other suspects : ) Finnish press was so exited about louhelainen


Sound like the comment may have come from Finland, but it does give cause for concern. JL does work for various police forces including Australian ones. What would a defence counsel make of analysis from an expert witness who stuffs up like this?

[GUT]

I wonder if they will still go to Salisbury. After Lechmere's urgings, I bought a return flight from Sydney.

Actually, I didn't, but I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall with this out there.

Had me going there for a sec, I thought "Lucky B" then read the 2nd sentence.

[mickreed]

Of some small concern is the publishers statement - "this does not change the DNA profiling match and the probability of the match calculated from the rest of the haplotype data. The conclusion reached in the book, that Aaron Kosminski was Jack the Ripper, relies on much more than this one figure."

And by the way Caligo, despite the headline, the key point in the Independent article is not the decimal point, but the fact that, as the paper says, the mutation was a 'non-existent' one. 1 in 29,000 or 1 in 290,000 is irrelevant when the 1 wasn't real in the first place.

[Monty]

What news to wake up to.

Kudos to all who felt passioned enough to persue this.

Now this shall make Sailsbury even more interesting, as the question WILL be raised.

Cheers
Monty


PS Pursue....see, far too early.

[GUT]

This comment follows the Independent article and gets to the nub of it.

SARJANA 3 hours ago
ripper is secondary thing here, main point here is that louhelainen make mistake. hope that nobody's life is not hes hands, i dont mean death but life, if he is leading police investigations or something else important to somebody life, sounds fatal mistake.luckily riper is already dead so are other suspects : ) Finnish press was so exited about louhelainen


Sound like the comment may have come from Finland, but it does give cause for concern. JL does work for various police forces including Australian ones. What would a defence counsel make of analysis from an expert witness who stuffs up like this?

I'll tell you this much Mick, I'd like to have him as the police witness if I was for the "D" after this.

[mickreed]

I'll tell you this much Mick, I'd like to have him as the police witness if I was for the "D" after this.

There speaks a brief.

[Caligo Umbrator]

And by the way Caligo, despite the headline, the key point in the Independent article is not the decimal point, but the fact that, as the paper says, the mutation was a 'non-existent' one. 1 in 29,000 or 1 in 290,000 is irrelevant when the 1 wasn't real in the first place.

Hi, Mickreed,

I was just discussing this with a friend and they pointed out the very same flaw regarding the decimal point. Having read it thrice times now, the publishers statement seems more obfuscation, than refutation.
Perhaps they rushed this statement out and said what they hope is enough to douse the flames or perhaps they really don't comprehend the science behind the claims.

I suspect all this isn't really going to be of much concern in regards to any police work undertaken by JL, as such work isn't done on a part time, unpaid basis requiring little or no scientific rigour. At least we can hope that that's the case.

Yours, Caligo.