A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match

[mickreed]

Will be interesting to see what happens at these presentations and how much of the fog is lifted around the 314.1c issues raised here by Chris and others.

But I'm not optimistic ...

Hi Gryff,

You'd have to be very optimistic to be even slightly optimistic, I'd have thought.

Does the university want to be associated with such tat?

You'd hope not, but again, I wouldn't be optimistic. It depends whether the media (or even just the scientific part of it) latches on to Chris's findings and starts asking questions.

[Debra A]

You should have run 314.1c through haplogrep much earlier, Chris!

I also think that all Jari will be interested in when he appears at the Salisbury conference is showcasing his pioneering method of extraction of single epithelial cells by laser microscope. And no one who is attending is willing to ask awkward questions...or he hasn't been booked to answer awkward questions?

[mickreed]

I also think that all Jari will be interested in when he appears at the Salisbury conference is showcasing his pioneering method of extraction of single epithelial cells by laser microscope. And no one who is attending is willing to ask awkward questions...or he hasn't been booked to answer awkward questions?

Hi Debs

If I wasn't in Australia, I'd willingly pay 130 quid to ask awkward questions. From the way the news of the Salisbury gig was phrased, JL will, as you suggest, answer questions about the process; and it seemed that only submitted questions would be answered.

Does that mean all awkward questions will be filtered out?

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

If I wasn't in Australia, I'd willingly pay 130 quid to ask awkward questions. From the way the news of the Salisbury gig was phrased, JL will, as you suggest, answer questions about the process; and it seemed that only submitted questions would be answered.

Does that mean all awkward questions will be filtered out?

Apparently, Mick, you have to buy him drinks in the bar afterwards, then he may answer them!

[mickreed]

Apparently, Mick, you have to buy him drinks in the bar afterwards, then he may answer them!

He may? Do you know whether he will when you pay for the drink?

[PaulB]

What would be the awkward questions?

[mickreed]

What would be the awkward questions?

Is the 'very rare' 314.1C really the 'quite common' 315.1C?

[Chris]

Is the 'very rare' 314.1C really the 'quite common' 315.1C?

To put it even more starkly, Dr Louhelainen is quoted in the book as saying that 314.1C has a frequency of only about 1 in 290,000 according to the database at the Institute of Legal Medicine, GMI.

That is the EMPOP database ("The EMPOP database has been developed by the Institute of Legal Medicine (GMI), Innsbruck Medical University and the Institute of Mathematics, University of Innsbruck.")

But if you put 314.1C (with a range of 314.1-315.1) into the search form at

http://empop.org/modules/haplotype/

you get a match to 99.2% of the sequences in the database.

[mickreed]

To put it even more starkly, Dr Louhelainen is quoted in the book as saying that 314.1C has a frequency of only about 1 in 290,000 according to the database at the Institute of Legal Medicine, GMI.

That is the EMPOP database ("The EMPOP database has been developed by the Institute of Legal Medicine (GMI), Innsbruck Medical University and the Institute of Mathematics, University of Innsbruck.")

But if you put 314.1C (with a range of 314.1-315.1) into the search form at

http://empop.org/modules/haplotype/

you get a match to 99.2% of the sequences in the database.

And, as the EMPOP information page says (see my earlier post), you get problems if there are:

nomenclature inconsistencies – a sequence string can be aligned in varying ways to a reference sequence, leading to differing motifs while the mere nucleotide string is the same. If more than one approach of alignment is applied to a dataset, matches can be missed and haplotypes may appear rarer than they are.

[Lechmere]

Why is it that none of the awkward question wallahs are attending the conference?
The £130 isn't to listen to Russell Edwards or Dr Jari. This is the delegate fee that was set before anyone even knew about the book.
I believe a certain P Begg is on the schedule along with Sarah Wise and many more speakers with interesting talks. I believe there is a musical (!) and also a mock trial of Maybrick. And of course meals are inclusive... and there is the opportunity to socialise and discuss matters with like minded people.
Who could possibly want more!
Questions can be put to Russell Edwards and Dr Jari - and they will be there for the whole weekend so far as I know - and not hiding. So over an all inclusive cup of coffee with, who knows, maybe a digestive or custard cream thrown in as well for good measure, you may be able to pin Dr Jari down over the 314.1c haplogrep and the EMPOP database.
All this 'will they or won't they answer questions' is quite academic as those members of the awkward squad and who ponder this dilemma are steadfast in not attending.

[mickreed]

All this 'will they or won't they answer questions' is quite academic as those members of the awkward squad and who ponder this dilemma are steadfast in not attending.

I'll happily come Lechmere, if someone fronts up with my return fare from Sydney

[GUT]

I'll happily come Lechmere, if someone fronts up with my return fare from Sydney

Me too, and I'd imagine a lot from USA too.

[PaulB]

I am there, so what are the awkward questions,apart from those you have given, ANND explained in a way I can understand, and I WILL put them to Dr L.

[Lechmere]

Here's an idea - why not someone start a thread where sensibly articulated questions can be put - which attendees could submit on behalf of non attendees.

[Debra A]

Here's an idea - why not someone start a thread where sensibly articulated questions can be put - which attendees could submit on behalf of non attendees.

I did politely ask if someone could do this a while back but got told I should attend!