September 30,1888- The night of Clues?

[Robert St Devil]

I wondered about that point Tom_Wescott if it was a matter of under-reporting... since the manner and type of crime [Tabram's possibly being the first in the series] may have merely been considered Brutal at the time [by both officials and journalists alike], and that neither party was as forensically-inclined to note all the particulars of her scene of the crime as they would become in pursuant months when the sensation of the crimes grew into the Heinous, Grotesque, Macabre,...

My wonderment is two-fold:
1. Martha Tabram seems peculiarly under-dressed considering many of the other victims {poor as they may be!} were wearing a few more articles of clothing e.g. bodice, chest cloth, &c.
2. I don't see any mention of articles or items in her possession e.g. a piece of mirror, a comb, a length of string, a thimble, &c.

[Robert St Devil]

...My grandfather was forced to join the Russian Army upon threat of shooting his entire family. His stepmother gladly obliged...

My first time reading, I read this as: His stepmother gladly obliged to shoot his entire family

Thank you for the post, Patrick, it's good to know you better. I am along the Texas border, currently serving my duties of keeping out the aliens - both domestic & interplanetary. I'm not partial to any suspect, i think interesting cases can be submitted for most... but even if Jacob Levy was favored as Jack the Ripper, it would still mean that the Chapmans and Kosminskis and Burys and Maybricks and Druitts and Van Goghs and [insert suspect's name] were haunting about the East End, in other words there were a lot of bad people doing a lot of bad things in the East End in 1888 [a lot of slugs hidden under the rock] so narrowing-down a suspect or motive based on one narrative over another seems slightly vacant to me.
My suspicions-of-the-moment tend to be based on whatever true crime series I am currently watching. I watched one the other evening about a 30 yo Texas man who murdered two prostitutes because he was filled with 'a couple of beers & some idiotic rage against women', and it turned out that his father worked in the Sheriff Department. I thought, now there's an interesting idea for Jack the Ripper, considering the question that continually arises about how he effortlessly navigated the constabulary, that maybe he had insight about police-workings from growing up in a constable's home.

[Tom_Wescott]

I wondered about that point Tom_Wescott if it was a matter of under-reporting... since the manner and type of crime [Tabram's possibly being the first in the series] may have merely been considered Brutal at the time [by both officials and journalists alike], and that neither party was as forensically-inclined to note all the particulars of her scene of the crime as they would become in pursuant months when the sensation of the crimes grew into the Heinous, Grotesque, Macabre,...

My wonderment is two-fold:
1. Martha Tabram seems peculiarly under-dressed considering many of the other victims {poor as they may be!} were wearing a few more articles of clothing e.g. bodice, chest cloth, &c.
2. I don't see any mention of articles or items in her possession e.g. a piece of mirror, a comb, a length of string, a thimble, &c.

Hi Robert. The description of her clothing I quoted wasn't from the press, it was from the police report of Inspector Ellisdon. It's possible her dress was torn away, exposing her breasts, as PC Barrett said, or he assumed the presence of a dress that was never there. Hard to say.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[chubbs]

Hi Tani- From every photograph I've seen of that era I would call black the standard color. Yes there were other colors available if you had the money. I am talking mens clothing in this case. In the case of JtR he would be difficult to tag at night and would also easily blend in during the day in a crowd wearing black. Point being he looked like the majority of men at the time and did not really " stand out". My guess on hats is that, like the women, they liked the variety. My thought on red handkerchiefs is that there was no better color to hide blood.
Appreciate the feedback.

Given that colour photography didn't really exist at that time, it's highly probable that black would have been the standard colour of clothing in photographs (and white too).

[Patrick Differ]

Maybe JtR just liked black. :-)

[New Waterloo]

There is a clue to what happened hiding in plain sight. At around 1245am James Brown sees a man with a female he believes to be Stride. There appears no reason to doubt what he is saying. He describes the coat as long. He is reported as saying nearly down to the floor.

This man is a different man seen by PC Smith with Stride who was wearing a cutaway coat. (shorter style)

Because of the tight time frame I would suggest that any activity around the gates to the club witnessed by Schwartz involves these two men. They are different people. The evidence comes from a police officer and an unchallenged member of the public.

What this means is unclear but cannot be overlooked.

At some point in a very short period of time Stride leaves the company of PC Smiths man and is then in the company of Browns man. All in a very small area a few yards apart.

Are we looking at a punch up over a woman/girl (Stride) which has gone wrong.

Looking at what Schwartz says we can conclude there was a disturbance outside the gates involving 3 men at least cant believe there were 5 unknown men around the club gates at that time.

We may not like this idea but we cannot get away from the fact that Stride was with two men during a short period around 1245am

NW