September 30,1888- The night of Clues?

[Patrick Differ]

Agree with the thought that this killer would likely have serious upper body strength in order to render these women unconscious. Even in a state of deprivation a woman at 100 pounds for example, he seemingly handled these women easily in silence. I think this is an important perhaps overlooked factor in this case. It may be an indicator of profession. You might not expect a barber, tailor, or surgeon to have that kind of developed strength, but you might consider a dock worker, butcher or even mortuary assistant. Assuming the killer used his hands and not a garrot, this might even be more the case. It's not clear whether this killer used a wall as leverage but all but Kelly were found near a Wall.

[The Rookie Detective]

Agree with the thought that this killer would likely have serious upper body strength in order to render these women unconscious. Even in a state of deprivation a woman at 100 pounds for example, he seemingly handled these women easily in silence. I think this is an important perhaps overlooked factor in this case. It may be an indicator of profession. You might not expect a barber, tailor, or surgeon to have that kind of developed strength, but you might consider a dock worker, butcher or even mortuary assistant. Assuming the killer used his hands and not a garrot, this might even be more the case. It's not clear whether this killer used a wall as leverage but all but Kelly were found near a Wall.

Ah yes, but Kelly had her throat cut next to the partition wall; as evidenced by the blood splatter.

Kelly had her throat cut as she faced the wall as she was either lying or kneeling at the far side of the bed, and after her BP had dropped through blood loss, she was moved to the near side of the bed, placed in a position whereby the killer could commence post mortem mutilation and then before leaving, the killer displayed her in a manner to optimise the distress felt by whomever would discover her later on.

The ripper used his left hand to pull her head back and his right hand to reach around her her throat in a hooking motion and then cut her throat.

It's almost certain she was facing away from him at the time, and would suggest they were likely lying om the bed together in a spooning position just moments before the killer struck by lifting her head in a simultaneous upward and backward motion by gripping her hair with his left hand.

The question is; how did the killer manage to bring into the room such a formidable long-bladed weapon without her seeing it as he entered?

It means that the weapon was concealed in some way.

Perhaps by means of a customised walking stick concealing a blade, or a secret pocket within his coat that could hold a long thin blade.

[Tom_Wescott]

Rookie, you've twice now suggested that Stride was nearly decapitated. She was not. I'm aware of the single press mention attributed to Dr. Blackwell. I doubt Blackwell ever said this.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Abby Normal]

the circs that night point to stride probably not actively soliciting that night but looking for a new boyfriend. she recently split with kidney, she was dolled up, and she wasnt jumping into an alley with the first man she met. the man she did meet they hung out wandered around, he probably bought her drink and a flower. all tje while trying to get her to go to a secluded place.unfortunately for her it was the ripper. when she wouldnt go he lost his temper, attacked her (what schwartz saw) and cut her throat. he then bolted to find a more acquiescent victim which he shortly did with eddowes.

[JohnSAJR]

Hi everyone, long, long time reader, first time poster, so please bear with me. Love the website and have learned so much over the years.

Something you've mentioned, Abby, which has always been a puzzle, is whether Stride was out soliciting, or on a date. The circs - being dolled on and hanging around with a man, IMO do lean toward the latter, which leaves me the question. If the 'date' she's seen with was the man who murdered her (and I know there could me more than one man she's in the company of that night) is it reasonable to assume he'd be someone mature and closer to her age and not a 23 year old?

Apologies if this has been covered before.

[Tani]

I would be in the Yes group.
What I find interesting is, neither Dutfields Yard specifically, nor Berner St. in general were known for prostitution. This site must be the least likely spot for the Ripper to find a prostitute.
Which might beg the question, was Stride prostituting herself that night?
Or, if she was (given her background?), how did Jack find her there?
Then we might ask, does that mean Stride may not have been a Ripper victim after all?
Regardless of the suggested differences of the murder, we do know Stride had the same bruises on her clavicle's, that were found on Chapman.
Perhaps, the solution is, Jack didn't find her there, and she wasn't prostituting herself, but Stride arrived at that location with the Ripper.

Looking at the map of Whitechapel victims, Stride is the only red pulse on the other side of the Whitechapel Road, which has always struck me as being somewhat odd; the killing field seems to be on one particular side,

[Tani]

Looking at the map of Whitechapel victims, Stride is the only red pulse on the other side of the Whitechapel Road, which has always struck me as being somewhat odd; the killing field seems to be on one particular side,

Need to add that if you count Alice McKenzie, she's on Castle Alley on the same side as most of the others, near Smith and Tabram.

[The Rookie Detective]

Need to add that if you count Alice McKenzie, she's on Castle Alley on the same side as most of the others, near Smith and Tabram.

Tabram's red dot marker is too far south.

It should be further up the road heading towards Wentworth street

She was murdered closer to the junction with Wentworth St than Whitechapel road.

And unless we accept that the Ripper was part of a gang, then there's no need to add Smith

[Patrick Differ]

The killer worked off main thouroughfares which might mean that he traveled these streets with some comfort. When you look at the map it clearly shows this. When you look at Nichols and Stride you see the farthest eastern and southern points of attack from a more concentrated zone. It might indicate that this killer at some point may have targeted his victims from the 3 Doss house areas of Dorset, Flower & Dean and Thrawl Street. To me there seems to be a clear connection. So his hunting area? Possibly close to his home.
When Nichols started to walk in a drunken stupor down Whitechapel did she run into the Ripper or was she followed?
I lean towards her being followed in similar fashion to Stride.
That might explain the where in all cases. It's hard to reconcile the different men seen with Stride between 11am and 1pm by 3 laborers, PC Smith, Brown and Schwartz. It appears that Brown and Scwartz describe the same man with long coat and black felt hat wide brim. The same man Brown heard say to her that " you would say anything but your prayers". Was that a message of things to come for Stride? Did Stride seal her fate when she told the killer " No not tonight maybe some other night?" Was the killer not to be denied but got interrupted only to become more enraged?
This does not match the same man Lawende evidently said he saw with Eddowes roughly 35 minutes later outside of Church Passage. Was Lawende trying to recall or did he describe a different man or simply get it wrong?
There is another possibility here....
What if the killer, as the map illustrates, lived somewhere between Berner Street , Mitre Square and Hanbury Street. The killer, having been seen by Schwartz, Brown and possibly others, still enraged and not finished his last for killing, simply stops home, changes his coat and hat, puts on a red neckerchief, and walks toward St Botolphs frequented by prostitutes. He had to avoid Metro.
Could the killer have done that within 35 minutes?
It seems possible and factoring in rage and adrenaline perhaps more so.
if the killer were smart enough to know he was seen and read the papers he was likely smart enough to change his look. The double event might illustrate this. He was also hiding out in the vicinity before the apron was found.
Wonder if he was inspired by Robert Louis Stevenson?

[Tani]

Tabram's red dot marker is too far south.

It should be further up the road heading towards Wentworth street

She was murdered closer to the junction with Wentworth St than Whitechapel road.

And unless we accept that the Ripper was part of a gang, then there's no need to add Smith

I was just using the quickest map available, but my point still stands; all the victims considered Ripper are on the one side, absent Stride.

Edit: This map may suffice,

[c.d.]

all the victims considered Ripper are on the one side, absent Stride.

Unfortunately we can't reach a conclusion as to whether or not Stride was a Ripper victim based on location alone.

c.d.

[Tani]

all the victims considered Ripper are on the one side, absent Stride.

Unfortunately we can't reach a conclusion as to whether or not Stride was a Ripper victim based on location alone.

c.d.

No, but I was noting that her location is the odd one out in terms of being on the other side of the main road/high street alongside the other poster noting that Berner Street was not necessarily where you'd go to find a prostitute. It's at least worth pointing out if we're going to debate the DE.

[c.d.]

If Jack had been killing in a clearly defined geographical area, it would be a reasonable assumption on his part that the police were focusing their search and their patrols on that specific area. Solution? Kill in a different area.

c.d.

[Patrick Differ]

If the killer was a local, born and living in Whitechapel, it would be surprising if he would not know the entire area. Growing up in a city environment would lend itself to knowing area by landmarks like Hospitals, cemetaries,churches, and Schools as examples as well as main thoroughfares.As one gets older you likely know the Pubs as well.

[Tani]

If Jack had been killing in a clearly defined geographical area, it would be a reasonable assumption on his part that the police were focusing their search and their patrols on that specific area. Solution? Kill in a different area.

c.d.

I think you think I'm making an argument, when I just made a point for consideration.