From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

[Wickerman]

Well then PC Long is very much co-orborated by the most senior Policeman in Whitechapel and that does change things.

It might be of interest to us all if someone knows where we can find a document written & signed by Warren so we can compare handwriting.
Not to say we are professionals at that, but in many cases it is not difficult to see where major differences or similarities exist.
See if someone is up for the challenge?

[Sunny Delight]

Warren's report, dated 6 Nov. can be found in the "Ultimate" (p.183), the quote I used is taken directly from that report.
He writes that he made his own copy at the site. A number of theorists have used that copy to suggest how the wording was placed on the various bricks as opposed to being written in two continuous lines.

Well then PC Long is very much co-orborated by the most senior Policeman in Whitechapel and that does change things.

[Wickerman]

Yes I am aware of that. I had initially read it in the way that it was a copy of what had been written down by PC Long?

Warren's report, dated 6 Nov. can be found in the "Ultimate" (p.183), the quote I used is taken directly from that report.
He writes that he made his own copy at the site. A number of theorists have used that copy to suggest how the wording was placed on the various bricks as opposed to being written in two continuous lines.

[Sunny Delight]

I'm not sure how you arrive at that, you must be aware that Warren wrote that he went to Goulston St. and before it was wiped off he wrote his own copy - "..having taken a copy of which I enclose a duplicate..."



This copy was found among the official files, the wording is identical with PC Long's version.



Yes, it is very likely the case.

Yes I am aware of that. I had initially read it in the way that it was a copy of what had been written down by PC Long?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The presence of the apron piece is still a clue that the murderer travelled to Spitalfields following the murder in Mitre Square.

It also suggests that he lived near Goulston Street.

[Wickerman]

I am not saying PC Long was incorrect but nor can we say he was indeed correct. So it is an open question. The fact that the graffitti was written down differently by others leaves doubt over his competence.

I'm not sure how you arrive at that, you must be aware that Warren wrote that he went to Goulston St. and before it was wiped off he wrote his own copy - "..having taken a copy of which I enclose a duplicate..."



This copy was found among the official files, the wording is identical with PC Long's version.

I think it is highly significant if PC Long was correct and the Apron was not there at 2:20am. That would mean the one real clue we have on the Rippers direction of travel after a murder is incorrect.

Yes, it is very likely the case.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Would it have been erased if there was no association with the murder I wonder?

Would Warren have written what he wrote if he had thought it likely that the murderer was a Jew?

That makes five senior men - Abberline, Macnaghten, Smith, Reid, and Warren - who were all of the opinion that the murderer was a gentile, and yet Anderson claimed that he and all those investigating the murders came to the conclusion that the murderer was a Jew at a time when they had no Jewish suspect.

What Anderson wrote was evidently untrue.

[Losmandris]

[The graffito were] evidently written with the intention of inflaming the public mind against the Jews,... but after taking into consideration... the strong feeling which had been excited against the Jews,... I considered it desirable to obliterate the writing at once, having taken a copy of which I enclose a duplicate... I do not hesitate myself to say that if that writing had been left there would have have been an onslaught upon the Jews... I have no doubt myself whatever that one of the principal objects of the Reward offered by Mr. Montagu was to shew to the world that the Jews were desirous of having the Hanbury Street Murder cleared up, and thus to divert from them the very strong feeling which was then growing up...

[enclosure]

The Jewes are
The men that
Will not
be Blamed
for nothing

(SIR CHARLES WARREN)

Would it have been erased if there was no association with the murder I wonder?

[John Wheat]

I am not saying PC Long was incorrect but nor can we say he was indeed correct. So it is an open question. The fact that the graffitti was written down differently by others leaves doubt over his competence. I think it is highly significant if PC Long was correct and the Apron was not there at 2:20am. That would mean the one real clue we have on the Rippers direction of travel after a murder is incorrect.

Hi Sunny Delight. Yes I agree with what you're saying. I think for the reasons you state we can't really draw any definitive conclusions from the GSG or the apron.

[Sunny Delight]

I agree Sunny Delight it means the GSG could have been written by someone who was Jewish or someone not Jewish. So basically anyone. Also it could have been written by Jack the Ripper or not

I am not saying PC Long was incorrect but nor can we say he was indeed correct. So it is an open question. The fact that the graffitti was written down differently by others leaves doubt over his competence. I think it is highly significant if PC Long was correct and the Apron was not there at 2:20am. That would mean the one real clue we have on the Rippers direction of travel after a murder is incorrect.

[DJA]

Thanks for your help PI1.
We have someone with surgical skill and knowledge of anatomy running around with chalk at the start of the teaching term.
He is about 5'3" tall (sic).
And the cops remove his very neat handwriting

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

[The graffito were] evidently written with the intention of inflaming the public mind against the Jews,... but after taking into consideration... the strong feeling which had been excited against the Jews,... I considered it desirable to obliterate the writing at once, having taken a copy of which I enclose a duplicate... I do not hesitate myself to say that if that writing had been left there would have have been an onslaught upon the Jews... I have no doubt myself whatever that one of the principal objects of the Reward offered by Mr. Montagu was to shew to the world that the Jews were desirous of having the Hanbury Street Murder cleared up, and thus to divert from them the very strong feeling which was then growing up...

[enclosure]

The Jewes are
The men that
Will not
be Blamed
for nothing

(SIR CHARLES WARREN)

[DJA]

IThis is perhaps my biggest pet peeve with many writers on the case. They disregard what they consider inconvenient.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Personally do not understand why people think GSG was aimed at the Jews.

Seems JtR was taunting the police,by informing them that he murdered "Nothing".

Incidentally,the apron was luring attention away from Mitre Square,while JtR was heading toward 13 Millers Court.

By the way Tom,if you clear your PMs,I'd like to contact you regarding your interest in my research

[JeffHamm]

Hi Jeff

Excellent work but I personally do not subscribe to the suggestion that he had a bolt hole and went home and then came out again, that would be an act whereby he would be unnecessarily risking being stopped by the police and apprehended, after all he was not to know that someone somewhere had seen him and given the police a description of him, or simply risking being stopped and checked.

Looking at the murder locations on the map, it has also to be considered that he made good his escape as soon as possible from each murder putting as much distance as possible between him and each murder. Each of the murder locations as can be seen is very close to a major thoroughfare with the exception of Stride, but of course there is doubt as to whether she was a ripper victim, so that being said it would have been more sensible for him to simply make his way quickly to one of the major thoroughfares and simply blended in with the early morning pedestrians before the bodies were discovered and the hue and cry went out

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi Trevor,

Thanks. I'm not convinced he did have a bolt hole to which he went and then came back out, but I think it is a possibility that needs to be considered, so for this analysis I'm just considering that line of inquiry.

And yes, I think the major streets are important to consider. I've got a suspicion that JtR probably regularly prowled a circuit, of Commercial Street to Whitechapel then east to Vallance and up to Hanbury, then back to Commerical Street (or in the other direction of course) . The stretch where Commerical Street becomes Commercial Road, is an easy optional route to take (the above doesn't mean he's not making side trips sometimes, but generally following those main roads as a circuit).

Obviously, that could be wrong, but given his series and the probability he was out looking a lot more than he actually killed, those would be the streets to keep an eye out for anyone seen regularly and acting at all suspiciously.

- Jeff

[John Wheat]

I do not dismiss PC Long's account but I do see some issues whereby his competence could be questioned. There is no confusion on guidelines- ex-Police officers on here well versed in Victorian policing have declared that forgetting or not bringing your notebook to an inquest is something that would embarrass a probationer. That is not of course a judgement on the man himself who I do believe was telling the truth as he knew it.

PC Long: 'The Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing'

DC Halse: 'The Juwes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing."

I do not believe that DC Halse amended his view. It could be that DC Halse was mistaken but equally it could have been PC Long. We will never know but it does leave a question. As for his first night on the beat it depends how competent the officer is. For me someone familiar with their beat will notice something unusual or notice something that seems different. Someone unfamiliar but competent may well have a very heightened sense of responsibility but someone less competent may not. It really depends on the individual.

I agree Sunny Delight it means the GSG could have been written by someone who was Jewish or someone not Jewish. So basically anyone. Also it could have been written by Jack the Ripper or not