Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

    Interesting to see the wider context of the street. The ripper must have had a good view up and down the street - looks like an ideal spot to duck in, keep and eye on the street, write a message, place the apron and leave. I've never understood the resistance to the ripper having written the message, especially in the context of Stride-BS-Schwartz. If it had been written much beforehand (day, number of days) it would have been easily seen and most likely wiped away, given the content. Are we to believe that someone else wrote and anti-Jewish message that very same night and then the ripper cam along and placed the apron in that very spot? Unlikely nonsense IMO.
    I tend to agree with you!! Too often dismissed!! It is one hell of a coincidence to have a cryptic message scrawled directly above part of a murder victims clothing!! Same with the two murders same night within one mile of each other- how Often has this occurred in history?? Not a lot !! Yet Stride gets dismissed as a Ripper victim!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Christian View Post

      I tend to agree with you!! Too often dismissed!! It is one hell of a coincidence to have a cryptic message scrawled directly above part of a murder victims clothing!! Same with the two murders same night within one mile of each other- how Often has this occurred in history?? Not a lot !! Yet Stride gets dismissed as a Ripper victim!!
      Too right! I think on this and other some other issues people just like arguing the point to show they can be different. What your photo shows is that there were other pretty much identical entrances on that street, yet the random anti-Jewish graffiti artist and JtR just happened to pick the exact same one! Pull the other one.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Bridewell View Post

        I think that's exactly what Long did. The only issue for me is why he missed it. The reason for his dismissal a year or so later is interesting in that regard.
        I always find it amazing that the person who discovered the only freakin clue the ripper left in the whole dam case gets dissed. or that this same person, who ought to be lauded, is claimed by some to have also missed it the first time around, eventhough hes adamant that he didnt, and testified under oath to it.
        Only in ripper world.
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #19
          Out of interest, does anyone know what the building where the GSG and apron were found were used for?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

            I always find it amazing that the person who discovered the only freakin clue the ripper left in the whole dam case gets dissed. or that this same person, who ought to be lauded, is claimed by some to have also missed it the first time around, eventhough hes adamant that he didnt, and testified under oath to it.
            Only in ripper world.
            This same "person who ought to be lauded" was dismissed from the Metropolitan Police, not for drinking on duty, but for being drunk on duty. Why is it unreasonable to conclude that he may have been less than diligent on this occasion, when we know he was less than diligent on another? Did he insist, on oath, that he didn't miss it the first time around because he didn't miss it - or because he knew damned well that he'd be sacked if he admitted that he did? I think it possible that Long was drinking on duty that night. Given what we know about his conduct on a subsequent occasion, I find it amazing that others dismiss this possibility out of hand. Long may have been telling the truth, but it is not unreasonable to allow for the very real possibility that he may not. Police officers sometimes neglect their duties and sometimes tell lies in the witness box. The best don't do it but Long wasn't one of the best was he?
            I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
              Out of interest, does anyone know what the building where the GSG and apron were found were used for?
              Tenement - Wikipedia
              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
                Out of interest, does anyone know what the building where the GSG and apron were found were used for?
                Were they private of public dwellings e.g. lodging house? It couldn't be something very simple like the apron and GSG were there because the ripper was staying somewhere nearby? Wrote the message and left, not to be seen again at that location?
                Last edited by Aethelwulf; 02-21-2023, 10:19 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  On his way to Millers Court.
                  Also leading police away from Mitre Square.
                  A tenement is not a common lodging house.
                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post
                    Out of interest, does anyone know what the building where the GSG and apron were found were used for?
                    Blocks of what we're basically flats, much like George Yard Buildings. Out of interest there were also similar blocks at the rear of this, in those blocks the mother of suspect Jacob Levy had lived until her recent death, and his brother lived in another flat at the rear.

                    Steve

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      List of existing model dwellings - Wikipedia
                      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Wentworth Dwellings - Jack the Ripper Wiki
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          In terms of the killer's route and where the apron piece ended up, if they intended for it to be found and then linked to Catherine Eddowes then it was very much job done in quick time. If they dropped or discarded it without any thought to it being found and linked to the murder victim in Mitre Square then it was a rare moment of disregard by them.

                          The apron piece was found within the threshold of the doorway. That would suggest the person dropping it had at least stepped inside, even if only for a moment. No witness came forward to say they had seen or caused someone to step aside at that location during that time. There are no witnesses regardless for that location following the murder until PC Long finds the apron piece. Something caused the killer to step inside that doorway and leave the apron piece behind. Either something spooked the killer at that point or it was a specific spot they intended to reach.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bridewell View Post

                            This same "person who ought to be lauded" was dismissed from the Metropolitan Police, not for drinking on duty, but for being drunk on duty. Why is it unreasonable to conclude that he may have been less than diligent on this occasion, when we know he was less than diligent on another? Did he insist, on oath, that he didn't miss it the first time around because he didn't miss it - or because he knew damned well that he'd be sacked if he admitted that he did? I think it possible that Long was drinking on duty that night. Given what we know about his conduct on a subsequent occasion, I find it amazing that others dismiss this possibility out of hand. Long may have been telling the truth, but it is not unreasonable to allow for the very real possibility that he may not. Police officers sometimes neglect their duties and sometimes tell lies in the witness box. The best don't do it but Long wasn't one of the best was he?
                            he was the best at finding the rippers only clue my friend.

                            and if he was drunk on duty that night, eventhough there is no evidence for it, he probably would have missed it the second time too.

                            Last edited by Abby Normal; 02-22-2023, 01:56 AM.
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Elamarna View Post

                              Blocks of what we're basically flats, much like George Yard Buildings. Out of interest there were also similar blocks at the rear of this, in those blocks the mother of suspect Jacob Levy had lived until her recent death, and his brother lived in another flat at the rear.

                              Steve
                              A very relevant observation Steve. Also where his previous boss, who had him charged for stealing, at one time conducted his business. Could that boss, and/or the jewish council that removed his kosher licence, be the subject of the GSG?

                              Cheers, George
                              Last edited by GBinOz; 02-22-2023, 04:13 AM.
                              The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. - John F Kennedy

                              Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I tend to agree with Bridewell here when it comes to Long. I don't think we can trust his testimony 100%. Due to the importance of the discovery there is no way he would have admitted he missed the first time around. I concede that the killer may have ducked into the entrance way for a couple of seconds to avoid someone but I don't see him hanging around long enough to write the graffiti. He just had a pretty close call in Mitre Square. He had already killed someone else that night and by this point the word is probably out. For me, he is racing to get back home, probably full of adrenaline. The route he takes just makes that seem obvious. Plus from the looks/sounds of the graffiti it was written by a steady hand, and would have taken at least a bit of time to write. If that is the killer, would have had to be as cool as a cucumber to be doing that!

                                Just a quick note to add. Would there even have been enough light to write the graffiti?
                                Best wishes,

                                Tristan

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X