The Goulston Street Apron

[Chava]

But the door jamb--as far as I have always known it--is the part of the frame that holds the door in place. There is no room at all to write something on that. So I assume they are talking about the wall of the vestibule beside the jamb. And I don't believe that would have been particularly visible unless you come at it at the correct angle. It's recessed from the street.

To me, the question is how many other examples of graffiti are found in that area at that time? If some prostitute was stabbed in a Jewishly-populated suburban environment where there is no street art of graffiti, and then the knife is found beneath an inscription that states ''The Juwes Are The Men Who Won't Be Blamed For Nothing', then I think you could associate the graffito with the knife because it's the only one around the area. But if that knife is found in a downtown area populated by Jews, say the Lower East Side, where there is a ton of graffiti and street-art, then I don't think you can have the same sureness as to the provenance of the graffito. It could have been written by the killer or it could be just one of a lot of similar sentiments written by all sorts of people. The knife may or may not have landed underneath by chance.

[Errata]

Just to make in more confusing, There were three doorways and three jambs in one building entrance.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Jon

Warren was by this time defending his whole livelihood...He and Matthews didn't get on and he was fighting to preserve his job - he simply had to justify the reason he'd had a vital piece of evidence washed away...on that basis alone his evidence just has to be treated with some reserve. Warren had a huge personal interest in presenting the GSG as being as "upfront", "in your face" and prominent as possible - hence his assertion it was on the doorjamb - highly visible from the street...but all the other evidence we have suggests it wasn't...go figure...

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Not a small spelling correction is it? But that aside, as a reason to distrust Halse's testimony regarding where the GSG (and hence the apron piece) was, it'd pretty pathetic...all sources except Warren seem to suggest the GSG was inside the lobby to the building...simple logistics would seem to suggest the same...even Warren's own version of the wording/layout seems (with hindsight) to suggest the same...It's only Warren's own self interest that tells a different tale.

All the best

Dave

Logistically, writing inside the vestibule at 2 o'clock in total darkness is unlikely, at least on the doorjamb there will have been a modicum of light, there was a streetlamp outside.
I don't favor the graffiti being connected with the crime, but some do.

What it really boils down to is, if you set aside the words of PC Long, two men (Halse & Warren) who both comment on the location of the apron when neither of them were present when it was found.
Which one had the true location?

I don't see self interest coming into it, if the concern was the writing being seen then it matters not whether it was inside the vestibule or on the archway entrance, it had to go, the markets were being set up.

.

[Cogidubnus]

Not a small spelling correction is it? But that aside, as a reason to distrust Halse's testimony regarding where the GSG (and hence the apron piece) was, it'd be pretty pathetic...all sources except Warren seem to suggest the GSG was inside the lobby to the building...simple logistics would seem to suggest the same...even Warren's own version of the wording/layout seems (with hindsight) to suggest the same...It's only Warren's own self interest that tells a different tale.

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Long's version was also witnessed by the Inspector, so apart from a spelling correction, we also have confirmation.

.

[Cogidubnus]

Frankly I simply don't trust Warren's evidence at all re the apron piece, the GSG or his reason for removing it - there is too much self-interest at stake - and his evidence does seem different to everyone elses - if you take his away, what remains is pretty consistent, precise wording apart...

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

He got the wording wrong too, didn't he? And he actually did see that.

Did he? That too is moot...

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

So when he states clearly that the apron was not there, then we have little reason to question his certainty, he is quite certain.

Notice he only admits uncertainty when it isn't his own head on the block...I am reminded again of the Mandy Rice-Burroughs quotation

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon

But Halse knew where the apron piece had been found - directly under the graffito.

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave.

He got the wording wrong too, didn't he? And he actually did see that.

.

[Cogidubnus]

DC Halse never saw the Apron in-situ, only PC Long did.

Hi Jon

But Halse knew where the apron piece had been found - directly under the graffito.

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Since it was the opinion of Warren that the writing posed a "riot threat" because he felt it it could be seen as people came and went if left unwashed...it seems clear that the location of both the writing and the apron were not back in some dark recess.

So when the PC states that "It was not there", referring to the apron section at 2:20 when he passed, I think that means he could see that specific place.

Best regards

Yes, he was quite sure.

PC Long:
"He had previously passed the spot where he found the apron at 20 minutes after 2, but it was not there then."
Times.

PC Long:
[Coroner] Had you been past that spot previously to your discovering the apron? - I passed about twenty minutes past two o'clock.
[Coroner] Are you able to say whether the apron was there then? - It was not.
Daily Telegraph.

PC Long.
"Are you able to say whether the apron was there then? - The apron was not there at the time."
Daily News.

When questioned by the Coroner, if PC Long was unsure about the answer he was not reluctant to admit when he was not sure.
E.g.
- I believe the words were as I have stated.
- It may have been.
- It is possible, but I do not think that I have.
- I could not form an opinion.

So when he states clearly that the apron was not there, then we have little reason to question his certainty, he is quite certain.

.

[Wickerman]

DC Halse never saw the Apron in-situ, only PC Long did.

.

[Cogidubnus]

Not a problem Neil and no apology needed

All the best

Dave

[Monty]

Please accept my apoloigies Dave,

Monty