Jack's Escape from Mitre Square

[jerryd]

Thanks Gary. I was just about to post that.

Also you can see, indicated by a smaller "T" and a "C" at the corner, this property (No. 36) had a concrete or asphalt roof as opposed to tile like the others.

[MrBarnett]

On these maps, at borders between two buildings we can see a symbol, which either looks like a T or a double stroked T? What do those symbols indicate?

- Jeff

They are extended from walls and supposedly indicate how high above the roof level the wall extends.

[JeffHamm]

I see it more like this.

Notice there are two buildings marked as No. 36 Mitre Street. The one with the "Carp" is the only one on Mitre Street marked as 1 story. The others are 3. It is also stated to be brick arched.

On these maps, at borders between two buildings we can see a symbol, which either looks like a T or a double stroked T? What do those symbols indicate?

- Jeff

[JeffHamm]

Your blue line goes from Mitre Street to Duke Street. You're too far north.

Oh dear, my mistake. I had zoomed on that map, but forgot that map was showing some details beside Mitre Square between Duke and Mitre, not below it and between Mitre and Leadenhall. Sigh.

- Jeff

[jerryd]

By the way. There is a carpenter/builder listed at No.36 Mitre Street in 1891 by the name of William Pennington Smith.

[jerryd]

I see it more like this.

Notice there are two buildings marked as No. 36 Mitre Street. The one with the "Carp" is the only one on Mitre Street marked as 1 story. The others are 3. It is also stated to be brick arched.

[jerryd]

Hi all,

I've drawn in the possible route (blue line) on the cut out from the 1878 map and the larger and more detailed one the right. And given the bend, and the apparent courtyard shown on the left, this looks to me to be the idea (though I suppose the arch in the building one to the west. could be indicated as well as that would have more of that "side connection" look to the main area where the schools are).

But, what's missing on the left version is the fact that the schools look to block things, but this important detail gets lost in the smaller versions, making it look like you could go all the way through. Unless there was some way to get passed the schools, it looks more like two small courtyards, one accessible from Mitre Street and the other from Leadenhall Street, but neither the twain shall meet. It looks like to the north side of the schools there might be a series of fenced off areas behind each building, but if they're fenced or walled off, that's not a public route.

Am I missing something, or is there a consensus on that point? That determining that it was possible to get passed the schools in 1888 is the key bit of information we're missing here? I don't see a way, but it's the details of the buildings that is important here, and that's not something I know anything about.

- Jeff

Your blue line goes from Mitre Street to Duke Street. You're too far north.

[JeffHamm]

Hi all,

I've drawn in the possible route (blue line) on the cut out from the 1878 map and the larger and more detailed one the right. And given the bend, and the apparent courtyard shown on the left, this looks to me to be the idea (though I suppose the arch in the building one to the west. could be indicated as well as that would have more of that "side connection" look to the main area where the schools are).

But, what's missing on the left version is the fact that the schools look to block things, but this important detail gets lost in the smaller versions, making it look like you could go all the way through. Unless there was some way to get passed the schools, it looks more like two small courtyards, one accessible from Mitre Street and the other from Leadenhall Street, but neither the twain shall meet. It looks like to the north side of the schools there might be a series of fenced off areas behind each building, but if they're fenced or walled off, that's not a public route.

Am I missing something, or is there a consensus on that point? That determining that it was possible to get passed the schools in 1888 is the key bit of information we're missing here? I don't see a way, but it's the details of the buildings that is important here, and that's not something I know anything about.

- Jeff

[MrBarnett]

This is the entrance to the New Synagogue at (I think) 73, Leadenhall Street between 1761 and 1837. As we saw earlier there was a ‘Beth Hamedresh’ (house of learning) in the adjoining Smith’s Buildings alley. That was there from 1841 to 1876.

Edit: Scrub that, the synagogue was further east at 53 Leadenhall St. Apologies!

[jerryd]

This is an interesting read as well.

Aldgate Priory – the medieval ruins inside a 21st century office block. | Stephen Liddell

[jerryd]

Thanks Gary.

Yes, trying to get to the bottom of it will be difficult I have a feeling, but....

In this 1887 Goad map it appears that No. 36 Mitre Street (Carp with Bk arch) appears to be a good match for the current archway shown in google maps.



Green Arrow- Approx. location of murder
Red Arrow- Current archway from different view

[MrBarnett]

Gary.

Apparently in medieval times there was a passage from an entrance between 39 and 40 Mitre Street to 72 and 73 Leadenhall.

Archway Between Numbers 39 and 40 Mitre Street and at Rear of Numbers 72 and 73 Leadenhall Street, City of London, London (britishlistedbuildings.co.uk)

I would guess numbering changed a bit over the years but in the current google maps of #40 Mitre Street it does show an archway to the left of the current #40.

(#40 directly to right in this street view)

Thanks, Jerry.

If it was listed in 1972, it may well still be in existence. Listing is the system of identifying and recording buildings of architectural and/or historical interest in order to protect them.

This is the kind of detective work I really enjoy!

[JeffHamm]

Hi Trevor,

Blenkinsopps statement has to be treated with caution he was never called as a witness at the inquest, and his statement was taken by a Star reporter with no descriptions of the persons he states "passed by". The man who approached him and questioned him was probably a plain clothes policeman as the time this occurred was about 1.30am around the time the body was discovered.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

I think it was probably a plains clothes as well, as we know they were out searching after the murder. And even as stated, his "people passed by" doesn't even tell us if the people were male or female, alone, couples, small groups, etc. As such, we're treating it with caution by considering it insufficient to rule out the possibility that a lone male, coming from Mitre Square, was one of those people. But, at the same time, we're not treating it like it actually means that was the case either. Basically, we're all in agreement here, his statement is insufficient to make a call on. We're also in agreement that regardless, this isn't the most probable route. I guess you could say we're exploring one of the less probable, but not impossible, options.

- Jeff

[jerryd]

I think it works if the shop with the awning is no. 72 rather than no 74 as suggested on this blog.

http://medieval-london.blogspot.com/...treet.html?m=1

Gary.

Apparently in medieval times there was a passage from an entrance between 39 and 40 Mitre Street to 72 and 73 Leadenhall.

Archway Between Numbers 39 and 40 Mitre Street and at Rear of Numbers 72 and 73 Leadenhall Street, City of London, London (britishlistedbuildings.co.uk)

I would guess numbering changed a bit over the years but in the current google maps of #40 Mitre Street it does show an archway to the left of the current #40.

(#40 directly to right in this street view)

[MrBarnett]

I think it works if the shop with the awning is no. 72 rather than no 74 as suggested on this blog.

http://medieval-london.blogspot.com/...treet.html?m=1