The Apron Again

[mariab]

When and where was it first written that the apron piece bore traces of fecal matter?

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in one or several of the primary sources (as in the doctor's reports).
I'm so sorry I can't look it up right now, I have a friend here.

"reasoning and “instinct“ exist simultaneously"
Agreed. One was, however, preponderant with Polly and Annie's slayer; the other with Kate's.

How's that, Lynn? Seems to me that there is a great resemblance between all three, and particularly Chapman and Eddowes. How can you confidently make the above statement?

What Lynn sees as a contrasting MO I (and most other “canonical“ Ripperologists) see as escalation.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

I've answered my own question.

It was Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown at the Eddowes inquest.

I was searching for fecal, but the press diphthonged it as faecal.

Regards,

Simon

[Steven Russell]

"reasoning and “instinct“ exist simultaneously"

Agreed. One was, however, preponderant with Polly and Annie's slayer; the other with Kate's.

Cheers.
LC

How's that, Lynn? Seems to me that there is a great resemblance between all three, and particularly Chapman and Eddowes. How can you confidently make the above statement?

Best wishes,
Steve.

[lynn cates]

Sir Charles

Hello (again) Mac.

"And, the framing of 'the Jews'? Distinctly improbable."

Why? Sir Charles thought that.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

weak

Hello Mac. I admit a weak case, but the other cases look perhaps weaker. Organs? Maybe Trevor is on to something.

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

In life it's not all black or white, reasoning and “instinct“ exist simultaneously. It all depends on how much one desires the quick thrill. Besides, dropping the apron piece might have referred to a more complex motive, such as revenge feelings against the Jews for having interrupted him in Dutfields Yard, the wish to involve the IWEC in the murders, etc..

Yeah, but we're not talking about life, Maria, i.e. Monday operating on habit and by Thursday sitting down to mull it over; we're talking about a 10 seconds slot to make a decision.

And, the framing of 'the Jews'? Distinctly improbable.

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Maria.

"By the by, Lynn, the time lapse between Mitre Square and the GSG is not too different a question from the time lapse occurred between Dutfields Yard and Mitre Square."

Thanks. I wasn't going to say anything, but . . .

"reasoning and “instinct“ exist simultaneously"

Agreed. One was, however, preponderant with Polly and Annie's slayer; the other with Kate's.

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Mac.

"Would he be thinking that, Lynn? I must cut a piece of apron because it's the only way I can get to the fingers?"

I think it is more a function of feeling sticky/slimy and needing cloth. If he made a perfunctory swipe on her garments, his mistake would become obvious.

Cheers.
LC

Still can't go with that, Lynn.

By the time it took to cut the garment he could have been on the way to having his hands wiped thoroughly.

I think it's a far less likely option than passing the organs on to someone else and so having no need for the apron, or Trevor's idea.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

I have a variation on my original question.

When and where was it first written that the apron piece bore traces of fecal matter?

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

In life it's not all
black or white...

Hello Maria,

Indeed. It works both ways that rule. The easiest solution is sometimes the furthest from the truth exactly because it's not all black and white. Woe betide those who recognise a shade of the colour " untoward blue".

Best wishes

Phil

[mariab]

Very plausible. But the time lapse is not.

By the by, Lynn, the time lapse between Mitre Square and the GSG is not too different a question from the time lapse occurred between Dutfields Yard and Mitre Square. Though arguably the danger of being apprehended had significantly increased between the two events.

His actions displayed reasoning? I would argue the opposite; his actions displayed instinct. For a start, where's the reason in risking the noose for a quick thrill?

In life it's not all black or white, reasoning and “instinct“ exist simultaneously. It all depends on how much one desires the quick thrill. Besides, dropping the apron piece might have referred to a more complex motive, such as revenge feelings against the Jews for having interrupted him in Dutfields Yard, the wish to involve the IWEC in the murders, etc..

[lynn cates]

compare and contrast

Hello (again) Mac.

"A man operating on instinct is bold"

Indeed. And I think that happened with Polly and Annie. I also think Kate was cleverly planned but the execution botched.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Thanks Monty,

It's odd that the question was never asked, nor the suggestion made.

Regards,

Simon

Hello Simon,

I have a faint recollection that it is in one of the early books, but am unsure as to whìch. Ideas anyone?

Kindly

Phil

[lynn cates]

feelings

Hello Mac.

"Would he be thinking that, Lynn? I must cut a piece of apron because it's the only way I can get to the fingers?"

I think it is more a function of feeling sticky/slimy and needing cloth. If he made a perfunctory swipe on her garments, his mistake would become obvious.

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello (again) Caz.

''an individual whose mind was so illogical, so irrational and so unaffected by the risks he was taking to satisfy his murderous instincts on the streets that never slept, that he gave us the body of Eddowes to prove men like him really do exist."

My problem is that such an illogical fellow is bound to be caught in double quick time.

Cheers.
LC

You could argue the opposite, Lynn. A man operating on instinct is bold; a man operating on reason is likely to come to the same conclusion as the man hunting him, and so he will do the expected and be caught as a result.