The Apron Again

[Carol]

Hi curious and curious 4,
Thank you both for your suggestion. I was wondering about that myself after I had already posted.
Carol

[Carol]

Hi Carol

It was sugested that a knife with a blade around 6ins would have been used by the killer it would be wrong to try to identify a specific knife. If you start trying to do that all you finish up with is a long list of diferent types of knives with 6 inch blade which takes us nowhere.

Hi Trevor,
I doubt we will ever be able to identify what sort of knife the killer used but I think it interesting to narrow down the possibilities. If we consider a certain line of enquiry 'wrong' then in my opinion we limit ourselves needlessly.
Carol

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi everyone,

Last summer when we were in England on holiday I found a really great book in an Oxfam charity book shop, published in 1991. It's called 'The Victorian Catalogue of Household goods' and describes itself as 'A Complete Compendium of over five thousand items to Furnish and Decorate the Victorian Home'. It is a facsimile of a trade catalogue published by the firm of Silber & Flemming of London and Paris. The author of the Introducion to the book is Dorothy Bosomworth and it was published by the New York firm of Portland House. The catalogue was first published in 1883 and this edition facsimile dates "from the late 1880s (the exact date is not given in the original)".

The firm of Silber & Flemming was founded in London in 1856. They were manufacturers, importers, warehousemen and agents. The catalogue was "comparable to Littlewoods' or Universal Stores' current mail-order catalogues".

I quote from the Introduction now - "Who, then, were their customers? Without surviving company records, it is impossible to form a detailed impression, but we can assume that they consisted both of retailers, such as department stores, furnishing shops and ironmongers, china, silver and glass specialists, and of corporate clients".

On page 79 I came across a "Hunting Knife, very superior quality, with 7―-inch blade and 4-inch horn handle, diamond cut. This Knife is so constructed that the blade can be folded into the handle, where it is locked by a spring, leaving exposed 4 inches of the blade, which is protected by a best solid leather sheath".

Could this be the sort of knife that Jack the Ripper used?

Carol

Hi Carol

It was sugested that a knife with a blade around 6ins would have been used by the killer it would be wrong to try to identify a specific knife. If you start trying to do that all you finish up with is a long list of diferent types of knives with 6 inch blade which takes us nowhere.

[curious4]

Hello Carol,

Think you might have something there - please do start a new thread!

Regards,
C4

[curious]

Carol,
Interesting find, but lost here on the Apron thread. You might want to ask it on another thread -- even start one . . .

[Carol]

Hi everyone,

Last summer when we were in England on holiday I found a really great book in an Oxfam charity book shop, published in 1991. It's called 'The Victorian Catalogue of Household goods' and describes itself as 'A Complete Compendium of over five thousand items to Furnish and Decorate the Victorian Home'. It is a facsimile of a trade catalogue published by the firm of Silber & Flemming of London and Paris. The author of the Introducion to the book is Dorothy Bosomworth and it was published by the New York firm of Portland House. The catalogue was first published in 1883 and this edition facsimile dates "from the late 1880s (the exact date is not given in the original)".

The firm of Silber & Flemming was founded in London in 1856. They were manufacturers, importers, warehousemen and agents. The catalogue was "comparable to Littlewoods' or Universal Stores' current mail-order catalogues".

I quote from the Introduction now - "Who, then, were their customers? Without surviving company records, it is impossible to form a detailed impression, but we can assume that they consisted both of retailers, such as department stores, furnishing shops and ironmongers, china, silver and glass specialists, and of corporate clients".

On page 79 I came across a "Hunting Knife, very superior quality, with 7―-inch blade and 4-inch horn handle, diamond cut. This Knife is so constructed that the blade can be folded into the handle, where it is locked by a spring, leaving exposed 4 inches of the blade, which is protected by a best solid leather sheath".

Could this be the sort of knife that Jack the Ripper used?

Carol

[curious]

Yep, you kept a bucket of corn cobs for that purpose... red and white ones...You'd take two red ones and a white one with you for business. You'd use a red one first, then a white one to see if you needed the other red one.

probably TMI

[Hunter]

It's my understanding that sometimes farmers used corn cobs.

curious (the original

Yep, you kept a bucket of corn cobs for that purpose... red and white ones...You'd take two red ones and a white one with you for business. You'd use a red one first, then a white one to see if you needed the other red one.

[curious4]

the apron

Hello Lynn

Oh dear! Put it down to my fevered state!

C4

[lynn cates]

right

Hello C4.

"Well, if not connected to the murder, at least to the victim."

You are on solid footing there.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil,

Exactly, so it wouldn't matter if he threw it.

Best wishes,

C4

Hello C4,

Quite, which in turn devalues the place of the rag vis a vis the writing, no?

Kindly

Phil

[curious4]

The apron

Hello Phil,

Exactly, so it wouldn't matter if he threw it.

Best wishes,

C4

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil,

Yes, you do have a point there, unless he took a trophy from Kateīs belongings we donīt know about (she was carrying all her worldly goods, it seems) and used the apron to keep it fairly free of blood etc.

Best wishes,
C4

Hello C4,

In which case the apron isnt a 'trophy' anyway?

Kindly

Phil

[curious]

Hello Lynn.

Yes I can see that a lack of soft toilet paper would be a serious barrier to time travel. Swedes used to use a stick way back - if you were really posh you had your OWN stick!

Gives a new slant on the word tenderfoot, doesnīt it?

Well, if not connected to the murder, at least to the victim.

As I see it, he was on a high - he had killed twice and got away with it and probably felt invincible. No-one could ever catch him, especially not the police.

Cheers,
C4

It's my understanding that sometimes farmers used corn cobs.

curious (the original

[curious4]

[QUOTE=Carol;200633]

Hello C4.

"why use rag, when there were plenty of copies of old newspapers'

Texture, I think.


Hello Lynn,

I can remember in my childhood when it was still fairly usual to cut up old newspapers into similar squares, make a hole in one corner with a meat skewer, thread a piece of string through, then hang the little 'package' up on a nail in the toilet within reach of the user. I can only remember this in outside toilets, and mainly with the older generation. This would have been in the 1950's.

It was normal even with the middle classes in Victorian times.

By the time I was born in 1946 most people were using toilet rolls called Izal. These were definitely better than newspaper but had a 'toilety' smell and were far from soft! I would know that smell anywhere!

Carol

Hello Carol,

Sweet memories! I remember squares, in a box, canīt remember the name.

Best wishes,
C4