The Apron Again

[caz]

So we look solely amongst the mad men Caz?

Makes complete sense to me. Making sense of motive doesnt mean logic should be disgarded.

Obviously our man was logical. His actions show reasoning.

Monty

Hi Monty,

It was Phil who wanted to see more logical behaviour from a serial mutilator, if that's who murdered Eddowes.

I was simply observing that there was nothing logical about what was done to that woman, giving us ample evidence of a man who acted with a total disregard for common sense and his own neck when the mood took him. Obviously he could pull himself together and act normally too, or he would have been caught. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't expect the kind of person who murdered Eddowes to act logically and rationally at all times when not actually ripping up a victim. It would have been a combination of using his head most of the time but losing it some of the time. When you or I lose our heads we don't go looking for women to rip up in public places, do we?

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Caz

You need to stay calm

Hi Trev,

If I was any calmer when posting here I'd be horizontal. It's a guilty pleasure for me. You'd be better off concentrating on my words and not trying to detect my mood. You get it wrong every time.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hello Caz.

"everything makes perfect sense to me as it is"

Indeed? Hmm, I've some real estate deals for you. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm quite happy to sit back and watch everyone else spending time and effort on alternative explanations that make more 'sense'.

The man who ripped up Eddowes and took away her womb and kidney "wouldn't have done this" or "wouldn't have done that" on the same night? Oh really?

That's the reasoning that has never made sense to me. But I won't spend any time trying to make sense of it. It's merely an observation made while I smile and scratch my head. There's nowt so queer as folk, as they say oop north.

Love,

Caz
X

[Monty]

Hi Monty,

It was Phil who wanted to see more logical behaviour from a serial mutilator, if that's who murdered Eddowes.

I was simply observing that there was nothing logical about what was done to that woman, giving us ample evidence of a man who acted with a total disregard for common sense and his own neck when the mood took him. Obviously he could pull himself together and act normally too, or he would have been caught. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't expect the kind of person who murdered Eddowes to act logically and rationally at all times when not actually ripping up a victim. It would have been a combination of using his head most of the time but losing it some of the time. When you or I lose our heads we don't go looking for women to rip up in public places, do we?

Love,

Caz
X

Ah, but who does act logically at ALL times.

Monty

[lynn cates]

Jack's behaviour

Hello Caz.

"The man who ripped up Eddowes and took away her womb and kidney "wouldn't have done this" or "wouldn't have done that" on the same night? Oh really?"

I completely agree here. Trying to explain the behaviour of another according to our own presupposed canons of human behaviour is a tricky undertaking. Would it were discontinued.

But, as they also say up north, "What can't be cured, must be endured."

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Trevor.

"surely you would have expected some mention of a murder in the graffiti if the killer had written it."

Ah, but recall the "Phoenix Park" murders? There were several flyers sent out with the inscription:

"This deed was done by the Irish Invincibles"

The reason I bring this up is that:

1. No mention of murder was made

2. It was also DISREGARDED--wrongly, it turns out.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,
To whom were the flyers sent?

Thanks,
Velma

[lynn cates]

destinations

Hello Velma. According to Molony, they were sent to:

1. Newspaper offices.

2. A "Scotland yard chief."

It would help were he more specific.

But they were dismissed as hoaxes. Ironic, eh?

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

Assuming the killer wrote it, he was a nut who`d just been rummaging about inside Eddowes abdomen so God knows what was going on in his head.
Perhaps he thought the words Juwes and blame along with a bloodstained portion of Eddowes apron as proof of authorship would be enough to cause a repeat of the trouble that took place following the Chapman murder.

Thanks, Jon. Some common sense here, everyone.

The same people who argue that this man would have been capable of 'spelling it out' and leaving no doubt, will also argue that he could not have written so neatly and legibly after committing such a murder and would not have put hmself at risk by writing anything at all.

How can they know what he was capable of and what he wasn't, at any one moment, or what else he may have been hellbent on doing, besides the rummaging about in an unfortunate's innards?

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Because Kate's killer made a rum job of it. In the days after the "Double Even" it was Kate's murder called in question, not Liz's.

Do you recall Baxter's remarks at the Stride inquest and his comparison of Kate with Polly and Annie?

Cheers.
LC

Is he not permitted a bad hair day, Lynn? I dare say you or I might make a 'rum job of it' if we had just screwed up in Berner St and were screwed up enough in the head to want to try again within the hour (just like Bundy and other repeat offenders like him).

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Ah, but who does act logically at ALL times.

Monty

Ah, you got my point then. Good.

Serial mutilation is just one illogical act. But it's one hell of an act to follow, and few men would be illogical enough to try it.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

hair and such

Hello Caz. (I say, would Caroline be permitted?) Yes, we may any of us have a "bad hair day." (Well, I might--if I had any.)

But how far may we take that? McKenzie and Coles? Recall professor Trow's explanation--"I'm old and sick; can't rip like I used to"?

Our only reason for observing certain canons is that we apply certain criteria. Remove the criteria, what then?

And why must we link Berner st to Mitre sq? As I am constantly reminded, coincidences DO happen.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

The apron

Hello all,

Just to return to bodily functions for a second - why use rag, when there were plenty of copies of old newspapers, flyers and even the odd dock leaf from someone´s garden?

As for the apron, also taken as a trophy, perhaps, went home (nearby) with everything and suddenly thought of a way to taunt the police, away to Goulstone street, graffito and rag to attract attention to it - it was connected to the murder, so no need to point out what he was accusing the jews of - if you interpret the message that way. It could also be said to point away from the jews when written by someone with bad grammar, of course.

The police took it all very seriously at the time and I find it hard to believe that they were any worse than today´s police.

Best wishes,
From a very flued up, as opposed to clued up, (no references to chimney-sweeps, please!)
C4

[Phil Carter]

Hi Monty,

It was Phil who wanted to see more logical behaviour from a serial mutilator, if that's who murdered Eddowes.

I was simply observing that there was nothing logical about what was done to that woman, giving us ample evidence of a man who acted with a total disregard for common sense and his own neck when the mood took him. Obviously he could pull himself together and act normally too, or he would have been caught. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't expect the kind of person who murdered Eddowes to act logically and rationally at all times when not actually ripping up a victim. It would have been a combination....

Love,

Caz
X

Hello Caroline,

I wasn't 'looking' exactly. Yes it could be a combination of boti logical and illogical actions. Could be rational and irrationaj decisions too. we can but way up our own thoughts on the mauer becau7e 4t is ajl speculation anyway.
As you know I dont personally believe in a one man multi murderer in all of this, and I personally quite easily undestand those who believe otherwire.

Best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

replies

Hello C4.

"why use rag, when there were plenty of copies of old newspapers'

Texture, I think.

"As for the apron, also taken as a trophy, perhaps, went home (nearby) with everything and suddenly thought of a way to taunt the police,"

Why would Kate's assailant wish to taunt the police?

" . . . away to Goulstone street, graffito and rag to attract attention to it -"

Distinct possibility.

"it was connected to the murder"

Possibly, but not necessarily.

" . . . so no need to point out what he was accusing the jews of -"

That depends on the preceding point.

"if you interpret the message that way. It could also be said to point away from the jews when written by someone with bad grammar, of course."

Or a poor understanding of English.

"The police took it all very seriously at the time and I find it hard to believe that they were any worse than today´s police."

They did indeed. So should we--until it can be shown there is nothing in it.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

club

Hello Phil.

"As you know I don't personally believe in a one man multimurderer in all of this"

Nor I. Let's hope the club grows.

Cheers.
LC