The Apron Again

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • lynn cates
    Commisioner
    • Aug 2009
    • 13841

    #511
    weak

    Hello Mac. I admit a weak case, but the other cases look perhaps weaker. Organs? Maybe Trevor is on to something.

    Cheers.
    LC
    Last edited by lynn cates; 12-09-2011, 12:38 AM.

    Comment

    • lynn cates
      Commisioner
      • Aug 2009
      • 13841

      #512
      Sir Charles

      Hello (again) Mac.

      "And, the framing of 'the Jews'? Distinctly improbable."

      Why? Sir Charles thought that.

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment

      • Steven Russell
        Sergeant
        • Mar 2010
        • 650

        #513
        Originally posted by lynn cates View Post

        "reasoning and “instinct“ exist simultaneously"

        Agreed. One was, however, preponderant with Polly and Annie's slayer; the other with Kate's.

        Cheers.
        LC
        How's that, Lynn? Seems to me that there is a great resemblance between all three, and particularly Chapman and Eddowes. How can you confidently make the above statement?

        Best wishes,
        Steve.

        Comment

        • Simon Wood
          Commissioner
          • Feb 2008
          • 5551

          #514
          Hi All,

          I've answered my own question.

          It was Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown at the Eddowes inquest.

          I was searching for fecal, but the press diphthonged it as faecal.

          Regards,

          Simon
          Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

          Comment

          • mariab
            Superintendent
            • Jun 2010
            • 2977

            #515
            Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
            When and where was it first written that the apron piece bore traces of fecal matter?
            I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in one or several of the primary sources (as in the doctor's reports).
            I'm so sorry I can't look it up right now, I have a friend here.

            Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
            "reasoning and “instinct“ exist simultaneously"
            Agreed. One was, however, preponderant with Polly and Annie's slayer; the other with Kate's.
            Originally posted by Steven Russell View Post
            How's that, Lynn? Seems to me that there is a great resemblance between all three, and particularly Chapman and Eddowes. How can you confidently make the above statement?
            What Lynn sees as a contrasting MO I (and most other “canonical“ Ripperologists) see as escalation.
            Last edited by mariab; 12-09-2011, 01:11 AM.
            Best regards,
            Maria

            Comment

            • Fleetwood Mac
              Inactive
              • Mar 2010
              • 2642

              #516
              Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
              Hello (again) Mac.

              "And, the framing of 'the Jews'? Distinctly improbable."

              Why? Sir Charles thought that.

              Cheers.
              LC
              Clearly, Lynn, it's a load of old nonsense.

              1) Presumably he didn't stumble upon this idea between murder and Goulston Street.
              2) Therefore it was pre-planned.
              3) So it follows some thought must have gone into it.
              4) I defy any human being to think of a less plausible way of framing the Jews than writing on a wall: "It's the Jews", assuming the readership can make head or tail of it. A small stoat with no more claim to reason than an even smaller stoat would have come up with something better than that.

              Comment

              • Trevor Marriott
                Commissioner
                • Feb 2008
                • 9449

                #517
                Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
                Clearly, Lynn, it's a load of old nonsense.

                1) Presumably he didn't stumble upon this idea between murder and Goulston Street.
                2) Therefore it was pre-planned.
                3) So it follows some thought must have gone into it.
                4) I defy any human being to think of a less plausible way of framing the Jews than writing on a wall: "It's the Jews", assuming the readership can make head or tail of it. A small stoat with no more claim to reason than an even smaller stoat would have come up with something better than that.
                But if you are going to frame the jews you have to write down what you are framing them for. I keep saying this and perhaps someone will soon listen. The graffiti as written does not refer to any murder.

                Comment

                • Monty
                  Commissioner
                  • Feb 2008
                  • 5413

                  #518
                  Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
                  But if you are going to frame the jews you have to write down what you are framing them for. I keep saying this and perhaps someone will soon listen. The graffiti as written does not refer to any murder.
                  You and me both Trevor.

                  Monty
                  Monty

                  https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                  Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                  Comment

                  • Fleetwood Mac
                    Inactive
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 2642

                    #519
                    Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
                    But if you are going to frame the jews you have to write down what you are framing them for. I keep saying this and perhaps someone will soon listen. The graffiti as written does not refer to any murder.
                    I think we're saying something similar, Trevor.

                    But for sake of discussion let's say that the writing was pre-faced with the words: "This message relates to the Eddowes murder".

                    What exactly does he go onto say?

                    "I am not Jewish, although I'm pretending to be Jewish, and I ask you to believe I'm Jewish and I say we won't be blamed even though we did it".

                    Jesus Christ.

                    Should have just written: "It was Leather Apron".

                    Comment

                    • Trevor Marriott
                      Commissioner
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 9449

                      #520
                      Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
                      I think we're saying something similar, Trevor.

                      But for sake of discussion let's say that the writing was pre-faced with the words: "This message relates to the Eddowes murder".

                      What exactly does he go onto say?

                      "I am not Jewish, although I'm pretending to be Jewish, and I ask you to believe I'm Jewish and I say we won't be blamed even though we did it".

                      Jesus Christ.

                      Should have just written: "It was Leather Apron".
                      Thats hypothetical you can only work with what was written.

                      Look at all the ripper letters which were sent in by "the killer" in all of those the murders were mentioned. Now lets just suppose one was from the real killer, if he had taken the trouble to write that in a letter which clearly refers to a murder surely you would have expected some mention of a murder in the graffiti if the killer had written it.

                      Comment

                      • Jon Guy
                        Assistant Commissioner
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 3154

                        #521
                        Assuming the killer wrote it, he was a nut who`d just been rummaging about inside Eddowes abdomen so God knows what was going on in his head.
                        Perhaps he thought the words Juwes and blame along with a bloodstained portion of Eddowes apron as proof of authorship would be enough to cause a repeat of the trouble that took place following the Chapman murder.

                        Comment

                        • lynn cates
                          Commisioner
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 13841

                          #522
                          inquest

                          Hello Steven

                          "How's that, Lynn? Seems to me that there is a great resemblance between all three, and particularly Chapman and Eddowes. How can you confidently make the above statement?"

                          Because Kate's killer made a rum job of it. In the days after the "Double Even" it was Kate's murder called in question, not Liz's.

                          Do you recall Baxter's remarks at the Stride inquest and his comparison of Kate with Polly and Annie?

                          Cheers.
                          LC

                          Comment

                          • lynn cates
                            Commisioner
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 13841

                            #523
                            dipthongs and such

                            Hello Simon. Good for them. (Should have had me research it. heh-heh)

                            Cheers.
                            LC

                            Comment

                            • lynn cates
                              Commisioner
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 13841

                              #524
                              escalators, etc

                              Hello Maria.

                              "What Lynn sees as a contrasting MO I (and most other “canonical“ Ripperologists) see as escalation."

                              Yes, that is the standard view. (Like your word.)

                              Cheers.
                              LC

                              Comment

                              • Steven Russell
                                Sergeant
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 650

                                #525
                                I'm with Maria on this one, Lynn.

                                Best wishes,
                                Steve.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X