Kate's choice of "Mary Ann Kelly"

You're already blessed my friend!
But I'll stick to my opinion, until you show me a pic of Schwartz drinking pastis with Ravachol.

Cheers! -Under the black flag!
Konigstein's supporter

Methinks sometimes a very good place to look for evidence of crimes isnt always among the lives of the criminals themselves my friend....and Israel is inconsequential historically and with me currently.

On this MJ bit though.....I suggested a statistical evaluation of the probability that a woman would randomly choose to create 2 false ID's within her last 24 hours, that when combined are 98% of the full name and address of the next victim killed by the man that later that day killed the woman herself.

I know Sam could calculate the odds of that happening....not my cup of tea though....anyone?

My best regards David, all.

[DVV]

Then you'll forgive me if one day its revealed that I knowingly allowed you to do so even though you're a friend.

My best again, ami

You're already blessed my friend!
But I'll stick to my opinion, until you show me a pic of Schwartz drinking pastis with Ravachol.

Cheers! -Under the black flag!
Konigstein's supporter

She becomes Mary Ann Kelly of Fashion Street later the same day as she earlier had been Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street.

Consecutive murders assumed by the same man.

Well, people do get hit multiple times by lightning despite the odds against it....so....I guess the door remains ajar.

All the best

Hi Mike,

honestly, I take the risk!

Amitiés collègue,
David

Then you'll forgive me if one day its revealed that I knowingly allowed you to do so even though you're a friend.

My best again, ami

[DVV]

All I can say here David is that one day you might find that a regrettable statement.

Hi Mike,

honestly, I take the risk!

Amitiés collègue,
David

Kat,

I'm sure the WM weren't political murders. That's what I mean.

Amitiés,
David

All I can say here David is that one day you might find that a regrettable statement.

Not all were, thats fairly clear....for example Emma could not reasonably seen as such.

My best regards

[KatBradshaw]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
I thought maybe you have some other knowledge!!

[DVV]

Kat,

I'm sure the WM weren't political murders. That's what I mean.

Amitiés,
David

[KatBradshaw]

Hi Sox.
Giving a false name at any point is not unusual though is it?? Its not like they had ID to prove one way or another. My friends who used to jump the trains a lot up to Peterborough would always give fake names when caught. Not that I associated with criminals of course!!

[KatBradshaw]

[QUOTE=DVV;112464]
He can't be a Fenian!
Nor a Munsterman (how great was O'Connell, last week in Perpignan...)


I don't think he is a Fenian but I am interested to know why you are so sure.

[Sox]

I find it harder to suspend reality enough to think that the killings were part of some Fenian plot to subvert the British Government, Or some Anarchist's plot to provoke a revolution.

You dont have to suspend reality, you just have to tell us why this woman gives a false name and address when arrested....the simple answer is that she did not, because she was never actually charged and only gives her name and address upon leaving the station. So why lie? I am not 100% certain about the law at that time, but I'm fairly sure that with no address she would have been detained and removed to a workhouse.

And, of course, we all assume that she did give a false name. Maybe most of her casual aquaintances knew her as Mary Ann Kelly and not as Catherine Eddowes hmm? Maybe that is what Kate called herself ALL the time and if she did, then that means that the Whitechapel Killers last two victims were known around Whitechapel as Mary Kelly.......so out of ALL the unfortunates that this man could have chosen, the last two just happened to have the same name, mere chance, I'm thinking maybe not.

[DVV]

Hi Kat,

Agreed. Fenian or anarchist murders, certainly not.
He can't be a Fenian!
Nor a Munsterman (how great was O'Connell, last week in Perpignan...)

As to the Eddowes/Kelly confusion, it's simply impossible.
When you plan to kill somebody in particular, you know enough about him or her. Those two ladies were too different.

Amitiés,
David

[KatBradshaw]

Didn't know Mary Jane??

If Eddowes was mistaken for Kelly then we have to assume that the person killing the women didn't know them by sight as they would then have realised that they had the wrong woman.
Is it that surprising than people who live in the area, doing the same thing, would have similar addresses? Dorset Street had so many houses and lodgings on it! What would be interesting would be to see how many of the people arrested in the vicinity of that police station gave their address as Dorset Street!
As for giving her name as Kelly, am I getting confused to say that her common law husband was called Kelly?? Not surprising at all then that she used his name.
Jane is one of the most common womens names and of course being the feminine of 'John' used as in Jane Doe.
Mary Ann, as I have said before, seems to crop up a lot in this case and so I think we can take that as a coincidence!
I find it harder to suspend reality enough to think that the killings were part of some Fenian plot to subvert the British Government, Or some Anarchist's plot to provoke a revolution.

[Sox]

Hi Sox

Isn`t the most likely explanation for Eddowes using the name Mary Ann Kelly, as Wolf mentions in his post, John Kelly`s deceased, previous partner was called Mary Ann Kelly.

Hi Jon, I'm not sure if the 'reason' behind using that name is important at all to be honest, just the fact that she did so. Lets take it one step further....

Polly
Dark Annie
Long Liz
Ginger, Fair Emma, Dark Mary

.....only Eddowes does not have a nic-name, but she does use the alias Mary Ann Kelly. Now like I said, I'm not really a huge fan of coincidence, especially in a murder case, and I'm not supporting any kind of conspiracy theory here, but I do think that is a connection.

[Sox]

Hello Sox.

"Why did so many of these women adopt a so called alias[?]"

Your answer to this approximates the one I would have offered.

Was MJK the alias of C5? Possibly. But certainly it deserves further exploration; the same applies, I think, to George Hutchinson.

The best.
LC

Hi Lynn,

In terms of a killer looking for these women by name then I think that we can pretty much discount any notion that he 'knew' his victims....if he did indeed know them then he would surely have been asking around for 'Polly' or 'Long Liz' or a 'Dark Annie'....easily found no? Locals would have been more likely to know these women by their nic-names rather than their 'real' names. Close friends may well have known their real names, but then if you accept that Barnett was as close a friend of Kelly as he claimed to be, then it seems clear that she lied to him....or he lied to everyone else, and he was little more than her pimp.

If you are an East Ender looking for this specific Mary Kelly then you would be asking for 'Ginger' 'Fair Emma' or Black Mary' I think, asking around for Mary Kelly is going to lead you to..... someone like Kate Eddowes maybe?

I have always had a feeling that Kelly & Eddowes knew each other, no proof, just a feeling. I am not a fan of coincidence at all, even taking into account that Mary & Kelly were common names at the time, the chances of the last two victims of the Whitechapel killer using the same alias are astronomical.